Is it just me who can see the similarities between that ruin and the morrowind ruins? And no, metal buildings do not work in cold environments, stone does a good job though!

I don't seem to recall the Elves turning into orcs between parts. Weren't orcs always there? And wasn't the whole thing written as a single book? You'd think he would have offered some sort of explanation for that, being huge into detail in his stories, if what you're saying is true.

Wel... Both have rounded towers, square buildings with riblike supports jutting out the bottom and domed/sort-of-domed roofs.... they both have windows? That's about all I can think of.

Dragonbone I think that was an "if" example. That doesn't happen in the book and that's his point
I have to agree with Phitt. You can make all excuses you want, that "thing" does not look like Dwemer architecture. Far from it, it looks like anvil architecture!
Let's face it, current Beth does not really care about lore that much, they'll deform it as much as they need to make it mainstream and "cool". A sad fact I might add.

And they're made out of stone that's the colour of the surrounding natural stone... For me it's mainly the roofs, the colour, shape and the pattern of the metal...

The roofs on the round Dwemer buildings are pointed in Morrowind and domed here. The rooves on the quadrangle buildings in Morrowind are curved and in this one they're sort of a funny shape. The ones in Morrowind are brown/copper. Here, they're grey. The shape is only very superficially similar and there is no metal in the new one.

The tower style reminds me more of Anvil than the Dwemer.

TES3: TRIBUNAL SPOILERS:

The ones in this screenshot appear to be made out of metal roof tiles which was what I felt the Morrowind roofs were trying to show. Having the roofs here curved is fairly logical considering it's built in a cliff face, having rocks fall on a curved roof will do less damage than against a pointed roof.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6740/towersplusanvil.jpg

No, not really.... At first glance, I wouldn't call this Dwemer architecture either but it sure doesn't look like Anvil's architecture.



Bethesda actually cares more about their lore than most companies. Sure, they change it when they want. That's an artist's prerogative. But, they don't change it as dramatically as people pretend.

House Dwemer is only mentioned in Tribunal propaganda that states also that the Tribunal were gods ever and not only some Chimer that stole some energy from Lorkhan's Heart. In the reports from Vivec himself and Alandro Sul the Dwemer are clearly mentioned as a different, enemy race that lived in temporally peace with the Chimer to fight against the Nord.



They made their trip post-Nord. Actually the alliance of Dwemer and Chimer had just won a war against the Nord.

I understand the argument of different styles. It is just somewaht illogical that a tribe originating from Morrowind would adept a new architectural style during their voyage just to re-adapt the Morrowind style in Hammerfell.



When you look at R?merstadt (district of Frankfurt in Germany) you see a modern city. But millenia ago at this place was a Roman city. But nobody would say that R?merstadt is a Roman ruin.

This is the same logic as saying, that human ruins on top of (unseen) Dwarven ruins are still Dwarven ruins.



Actually today Mournhold was build on top of Old Mournhold. Bamz-Amschend was only directly adjacent to Mournhold



Really?
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Giessen_Winkelturm.jpg&filetimestamp=20060318162120

That were common bunker types in the Second World War. The pointed roof deflected bombs quite good.

Bombs explode, and crumple, rocks don't

I can. Stone, cylindrical body, metallic domed roof. I can see the Dwemer there.

Let's not forget that the Dwemer meshes in Morrowind were from a time when graphical engines weren't nearly as powerful as they are today hence the low detail. Also, I highly doubt the small number of meshes we got with MW encompass all Dw. architectural styles. Gawd knows I had a hard time not repeating patterns when modding with them.

Use your imagination, people. Its not that much of a stretch.

Is everyone forgetting that the Dwemer were in Skyrim BEFORE any of the architecture we've ever seen was built?


Technical (engine and graphics) differences aside, the ruins we see here do in fact QUITE resemble the standard Dwemer architecture we are used to seeing.

Furthermore, these ruins could easily have been built EONS before the Dwemer template we are familiar with was ever established. This would be the equivalent of seeing an ancient Ziggurat and complaining that it doesn't look like any sort of cathedral or skyscraqer you've ever seen before.

Oh, yeah... and in the thousands of years that passed since the damn thing was built... apparently the Earth underwent a drastic change in graphics engine. :whistling:

[Edit:]

I re-read my post, and realized that it seemed as if I was saying that the Dwemer -came- from Skyrim, which isn't at all what I meant. D'oh! What I meant to imply is that the ruins we have seen so far were, up until the disappearance of the dwemer entirely, still being actively inhabited. Many of these would have evolved as the styles and architecture of the Dwemer did... reflecting more contemporary motifs within the Dwemer culture.

It is entirely possible that this ruin is not, in fact, any contemporary dwemer ruin... but in fact the equivalent of a Mayan Ruin... or a Castle Fortress from the Dark Ages. It is entirely possible that, when these structures were built, the Dwemer had not developed the precise architectural style which we are accustomed to seeing.

[End edit]


Anyhow... that's my two cents.

Make of it what you will.

-Cheers

Doesn't look like metal to me at all. Looks like normal stone/ceramic-ish tiles. And besides, wouldn't a single metal shape be better protection than a bunch of tiles, and also easier to make? You never see houses made with metal tiles. Ceramic tiles, yes, metal sheets yes, but not metal tiles. Are you sure you're not just searching really hard for the Dwemer influence?

Not me. I said it was probably before.

This.
People seem to try really hard to make up excuses. It's getting a bit silly. It's just Cyrodiil all over again.
I can live with it.(Since I love Tolkien dwarves) But it is still sad.

I don't think -this- is it at all.


I think that some people are looking too hard at it... and they apparently need "reasoning" for it, when in fact there are plenty of acceptable "rationalizations"... and most likely one universal truth:

Morrowind's Dwemer ruins were ass-ugly.

There. I said it.

They were HIDEOUS! Ridiculously hideous! Everything about them, from the eye-bleed inducing orange 'blocks' to the 'every-pixel-is-visible' spires... the whole damn affair was like looking at a train wreck!

If I had to take one guess, all lore-related postulating aside, I would say that SOMEONE over at Bethesda finally figured out how to make a 'pretty' ruin.

Sure, it looks more 'tolkien-ish'... but what the hell doesn't? I mean, if the Lord of the Rings / Tolkien camp had it their way... they'd take credit for the whole of the genre of fantasy... and sometimes, they TRY! The fact of the matter is, it's a big... beautiful ruin... and if it bears any resemblance to a Tolkien / Dragon Age / Insert-Modern-Fantasy-Reference-Here... then I for one am -damn- glad that at LEAST it isn't like it used to be.

I love Morrowind. It's my all-time favorite game.

Even I can admit that it was ugly as sin all the way around.

There.

Four cents, now.

Firstly, yes, there are simple rationalisations that we've already covered. But secondly, I liked the Dwemer ruins in Morrowind. Could have done with some better graphics to clean them up, but I liked the general style.

I liked the -general- style... but look at them now! They look like something out of a game from the 80's!


The whole game has not aged very well or gracefully at all... and while I love it to death, and I loved the dwemer stuff most of all, the possibility of it looking like -that-... as compared to big ugly orange pixel-spikes jutting up into the sky? I'd love if there were more metal involved. I'd pray that they still look mechanical-ish inside. But if that's the kind of vista I can expect to be treated to when exploring?

Sign me up. I'm sold.

I'll take whatever lore-related reason they cobble up after the fact.

No comment on the outside, but the insides were sometimes nice.

I was looking at the Redguard Dwemer ruins and they were worse: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/ancient-dwemer-ruins-part-2

I agree with you there, Lost Spline... I -did- love the interior of the Dwemer ruins, if only because they were usually the most complex and interesting of the various places we got to explore. I loved the feel of them being powered, and having technology. I would hope that those things didn't go away.

But if they make 'em all nice pretty white-ish stone... and half as beautiful as that picture there... I see no reason why I should be disappointed.

Sometimes, change is good... and I think this is one of those times.

Actually the Rourken clan left Morrowind in 1? 416. The Dwemer disappeared in 1? 668. That are only 252 years, not thousands of years nor EONS.


@Colonel Tannanbaum: You know the Orrery DLC for Oblivion? This had the typical Dwemer look in better graphical quality. So the Dwemer design of Morrowind is not incompatible with good graphics.

First off, kudos to you for having access to a timeline.

I couldn't remember off the top of my head (at 6:45 in the morning without any sleep for 36 hours, anyways) any sorts of precise dates... but I was fairly certain that there was a fair deal of time between those two points in time. And still, despite the fact, are we entirely certain that none of the ruins outside of Morrowind pre-date that date. Because if even one of them does, then it would justify Bethesda to make any claim they pleased about the timeline involved in the construction of the place.

Then again, perhaps this is another instance of something like the dwemer ruin beneath Mournhold.

Perhaps the whole thing is a misdirect, and in fact the ruins we are arguing over are human in origin!

It's impossible to say with the information given.


Secondly: The Orrery?


You mean that one, big, only-impressive-the-first-time-you-see-it model of the 'solar system'?

If that was the best they could do for Skyrim... I would take it... but I would most certainly be a bit disappointed. When you compare -that-... to the likes of the screenshot that has everyone here so worked up... it's the difference between night and day. The Orrery had nothing what I would consider -awe inspiring- about it... save for the fact that it was entirely unique to the rest of Oblivion.

If they -do- stick to that typical dwemer look, and everyone here is worried about nothing, then I sure as hell hope that it at -least- has the same awe-inspiring qualities which make me love everything I have seen so far.

That's really the best I can hope for.

I can imagine similar styles to the Morrowind ones being made totally awesome. I think I might give designing some a go, and I'll post it in the fanart thread later.