First of all, I gave my reasoning as that the Dwemer ruins are below the stone city and the stone city was built over them by the men. Also, I don't see how being able to shape stone makes them generic dwarves. I mean men and mer can carve stone into architecture but they aren't dwarves. Now if they retroactively make the Dwemer short, that's when I'll go into a rage lol.



Your right. The Dwemer and Dunmer were not the same race. The Dwemer and Chimer (the original Dunmer) were at odds with each other most of the time. The Chimer became the Dunmer when the Tribunal tried to summon Azura and Azura cursed the tribunal and all of the Chimer to have "Eyes as red as lava and skin as black as their hearts".

Ever seen Lord of the Rings dwarves build robots?

In any case, no one who would actually know ever said the buildings in the screenshot are of Dwemer origin, and even if they are, crying about it like children that didn't get their candy is just overreacting. So it looks different from the ones in Morrowind, so what? Art designs can sometimes change between games, and since this game is set in a different province from Morrowind, with a different climate, so they could very well have different archetecture from what we're used to in Morrowind. You don't have to go crying blasphemy just because Bethesda dared to *gasp*, change the design of some things a bit beteeen games. It could certainly be Dwemer archetecture, and it could not be, we'll see. Even if it is, though, I wouldn't say it's that big of a deal, I'm much more concerned about the actual lore regarding Dwemer in the game than the aesthetic of their buildings.

Until Bethesda says "Yes, the buildings in this screenshot are Dwemer/Dwarven structures." saying they are is just speculation, even if it's not completely unfounded.

Though the fact that the url for the screenshot shows the word "Markarth" in it might indicate there's some connection to Markath Side, but it doesn't mean it's the same place, maybe there's a place called Markath too, and that's the ruin in the screenshot, and Markarth is a different place that's nearby. One would, after all, assume that the "side" in the name wasn't just used because it sounds good.

I know others seem to doubt Pete Hines knowledge, but I feel like its safe to call this one confirmed as Dwemer Ruins. In any case, I agree that take it in a new direction is ok, although I still believe there needs to be some sort of connection between the Centurions and their environment, because just having the metal constructs running around inside stone halls is going to look off IMO. I'm betting we'll see pipes and such things inside.

Here's some quick shots from the TESCS:
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8478/endusaltower.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5445/odrosal.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4669/odrosal2.jpg
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9134/tribunalbamzamschend.jpg

From comparing the architecture, I can see how the Morrowind style could have evolved into the new style. The pipes are the most dramatic difference but that can be rationalized (i.e., geothermal use in Morrowind).

I'm not doubting Pete Hines knowing that the place in the pic had something to do with a dwarven ruin, it doesn't mean the stone structures that you can see are the dwarven ruins. I mean, Todd said himself that men moved into the abandoned dwarf structures and built them into their own. For all we know those are man-made structures built over dwarven ruins which you will find once you delve into the man-made structure.

Or vice versa. These ruins could have come first, and possibly therefore have had more influence from man and other mer architecture. Personally, though, I think the Morrowind style looks nicer (well besides the lower graphics that is) as it gives a more unique feel.

You can see the stone in there for sure.

Still, its a bit different to what's under the ground as you can see when Arkngthunch-Sturdumz is risen:

http://yfrog.com/2tmgescreenshot95j




I think it does. If you asked what the colour blue was like would you post a picture of the colour green?

Can anyone else see a ruined dwemer statue in the mountain side? I put a box around in this image - http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww32/JagerZeroX/dwarvenstatue.jpg

Comparison - http://images.uesp.net//4/43/MW-art-Dwemer-Concept.jpg

It looks to me like there is one of their hats on a head and a body underneath. There is even a lighter and darker area like face and beard. But it's probabaly just a coincidence.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9896/arkngthunchsturdumz.jpg doesn't have that much metal below.

BTW, for anyone who want's a simple comparison, http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/9276/towers.jpg a comparison of the towers.

Those towers don't look like each other at all.

well, since all men came from skyrim I suppose you could argue that as they moved down from skyrim the ancestors of the dwemer had that city. But that's stretching it I think. We really don't have all that much information on the dwemer to know for sure. We did find them on the morrowind mainland so who knows. I hope they keep them a mystery.

And you had to make a smart*bleep* remark...

Guess what? You can't say it is confirmed, for the very reason I mentioned. Todd Howard>Pete Hines. Pete is great and all but he isn't directing the game and if Todd says that men moved into Dwarven abandoned cities and repurposed them into cities for themselves, I'm going to go with Todd's assessment and say that if that truly is a dwemer ruin, then the architecture you see is man-made, not dwemer-made.

Matrixing at its finest.

This picture is actually art work or concept art but now that I look at it again it looks like dwemer architecture but in a high definition sense. We were so used to morrowinds engine how could we possibly notice. If you look at the roof's of the buildings it shows.

How do you know? You've never seen what's under it. No need to be so serious. I do agree with your comparison, though. Stone walls, metallic roof, cylindrical shape. Looks Dwarven to me. Looks good too. I like it when something is re-imagined. Makes it feel fresh. And let's face it, if Beth just upped the textures on the MW models we'd disappointed. If it is Dwemeri then I think its a great redux.




Yeah? Well my dad could beat up your dad! Relax, guy. Just providing an anology.

The Morrowind forums are never like this. Looks like we got some Ob'ers in here. OCD boob mod dl'ers that take everything literally.

The tower in the screenshot looks like something I'd find in Anvil, not an ancient dwemer ruin :\

The most unique characteristic of dwemer architecture was the rusted metal look. This is made of stone. Probably not dwemer.

Todd Howard didn't say they rebuilt them with their architecture over the top. Hardly worth calling it a Dwemer city then is it? He just said they moved into them.

Sorry. I just couldn't imagine that huge metal city underneath Arkngthunch-Sturdumz when I looked it up in the CS.

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but metal isn't really a smart thing to use in a cold place like Skyrim.
Everyone inside would freeze to death because the metal gets cooooold!
So, this may just be that the Dwemer adapted to the environment..


Or it could be as mentioned, that this is actually just Markarth, and not Markarth Side. (If there is any difference, which I would suppose it is.)

Doesn't really look dwemer at all. I see almost no resemblance.

Maybe the Skyrim dwemer use different architecture than the dwemer in Morrowind and Redguard.

No worries .



And brittle. Large temperature changes are bad for metallic structures.

I find it funny (again) how people try to explain something that can't be explained. I can guarantee that if a modder would have made a Dwemer ruin for Oblivion that looked like this the lore people would have torn him to pieces. 'That doesn't look like a Dwemer ruin at all.' 'Nice work on the meshes, but Dwemer? Just no.' 'This looks like Moria, but not like a Dwemer ruin.' 'You don't know anything about lore, do you? That's not a Dwemer ruin.'

Now that Bethesda made it the same people try to explain why it looks like this. 'If you look closely it is similar to the Dwemer architecture from Morrowind', 'Maybe it's a town build by men on top of a Dwemer ruin', 'Maybe the Dwemer in Skyrim had a different architecture style', 'The architecture used in Morrowind by the Dwemer doesn't make sense in Skyrim because it's colder there'.

The truth is: this looks nothing like the Dwemer ruins in Morrowind and it looks like I would imagine an ancient Dwarven ruin/town in LotR. It's what the mainstream audience expects when they go to a Dwarven ruin (I know Dwemer are not Dwarves, but most people and even Bethesda called them like that and later made up an explanation for it). I'm not a lore fanatic, so I don't mind. It definitely looks cool. As long as there are pipes and machines and all that inside it's ok. But personally I think the only explanation for the look of this thing is that Bethesda wanted to make a really cool looking ruin that looks cool in a way the mainstream audience expects it to look. And I'm really far from being a lore fanatic who is upset about things like this.

Well, I don't thin it looks particularly dwarven of any kind. Anyway,the reason people try to explain it is because since Bethesda made it, it HAS to be that way. They create theworld. Thus, this IS what Skyrim Dwemer ruins look like. I think varying architectural style is the simplest and most likely explanation.

Once upon a time..

Before the disappearance of the Dwemer folk..

The Dwemer Clan Rourken refused to make peace with the Chimer after the creation of the First Council under Indoril Nerevar.

Instead they chose exile. Their leader hurled the great warhammer Volendrung into the setting sun and vowed to settle wherever it landed.

It is said that it landed in Stros M'Kai where their holds and bridges still stand today...

And that's all I have to say about that...

That's the lore of the warhammer Volendrung anyhow. And if the Rourken traversed the entire continent of Tamriel and left absolutely no trace in Cyrodiil then it's safe to assume that they would have settled temporarily or more permanently on their path through Skyrim.

I know there were a lot of people who think that in Oblivion Bethesda butchered their own lore. There is only so much you can do before it becomes a bit ridiculous. It's like Tolkien described the elves in 'The Fellowship of the Ring' as slender beings with pointy ears and later in 'The Return of the King' made them look like nasty, heavily built Orcs because he felt it would be cooler. Tolkien wrote it, so it has to be true. There is not the slightest resemblance of Morrowind Dwemer architecture visible on that pic.

And I can only repeat, I'm not a lore fan so I can easily live with that and see Skyrim as a single, great game not connected to the previous games. But if they want to tell me that the same folks who built the ruins in Morrowind built this ruin then it's laughable. Especially since obviously they are on the same technology level, just look at the Centurion sphere in one of the videos - I doubt they would have one that looks exactly like the ones in Morrowind if they lived hundreds of years earlier or later. And a completely different kind of architecture only because they live a few miles away in Skyrim? Not very convincing. Of course you can make up explanations to keep your 'lore sanity', that always works. If nothing helps it's caused by a divine intervention or magic. But it doesn't make sense from an objective point of view.

They wanted to make it look more mainstream and they wanted it to look cool. And I agree that it looks mainstream and that it looks cool. That's all there is to it in my opinion.