I was reading another thread about adding crossbows and throwing knives to the game and I realised that option wise marksman is a really gimped skill. Right now we have this:

One-handed skill: Swords, Axes, Maces, any combination in duel-wield.

Two-Handers: Warhammers, Battleaxes, Claymores, Hand-to-Hand.

Blocking: Shield and shield plus any other one-handed weapon, spell, staff or parrying with any other weapon such as a two-hander.

Destruction (since I'm mainly on about combat skills): Lightning, Fire, Frost, Magicka/Health damage/drain and so on. All of which can be duel-wielded with themselves or another spell/one-handed weapon.

Marksman: Bows.

Seems like every other combat skill has a range of weapons and play styles to it but marksman has one option. It may as well be called archery as marksman suggests being proficient with any ranged weapon even though there is only bows. I'm hoping the marksman perk trees makes up for the lack of weapons. (I know this is also a problem with Oblivion but it just seems like something that would've been picked up on during Skyrims development.)

What does everyone else think? Think bethesda may be holding out on new ranged weapons?

At least marksman skill is actually a reasonable skill that involves doing something, unlike light and heavy armour.

Hopefully, short bows and long bows.

Well, Todd has stated that Skyrim does not have crossbows.. not too sure has he said anything about throwing stars/knives.. and i think throwing spears are out of question too :/

I would imagine it's because marksman isn't necessarily a standalone skill. It's meant to compliment (most commonly) dual-wielding daggers or short swords.

Crossbows would be nice, but I don't expect a huge array of ranged weapons. You open with a bow, if that doesn't kill your enemy, and they manage to reach you, then you switch to melee and finish them off.

Oh hey, I double posted. With posts in between them. :spotted owl:

You just reminded me actually, they said something about heavier bows being stronger but drawing slower while lighter bows are quicker drawing but less damage, so I should probably stop my moaning



Yeah good point, that tends to happen when I use them (unless you get into a range duel with another archer/mage). Just seems like there should be a few more options to compliment the skill.

Not bland.

With only 50 perks most warriors will only spec in either blunt, axe, or sword, so Archery only concerning bows is not too different. Now that Archery is combat, wouldn't be surprised to see perks that favor either combat or stealth builds.


Crossbows could have been nice though.

They really ought to divide bows into subfamilies: long, short, recurve, flat, what have you. They could each have inherent advantages and disadvantages, such as recurve bows firing more quickly but having a shorter arc of flight.

Of course, this is Bethesda, the company that seems to think the word "cuirass" is too confusing for the masses so they renamed it to "armor". It may just be too risqué if the word started getting out that archery is a lot more deep than stereotypical Robin Hood long bows, ho noez! :ahhh:

They really should make an effort to add more depth to the Marksman skill.

I see what you mean but the warrior still gets to choose between the three, if you wanted marksman as your primary combat skill your stuck with bows whether you like it or not. Though I suppose marksman will become more support in Skyrim due to back peddling being reduced, not much you can up close then than switch to melee or magic.

Marksmanship will always have less weapons, even with bows and crossbows (no, throwing weapons are not or shouldn't be under marksmanship).

At most short and longbows...

Todd still said that there are going to be different kind of bows, one that shoots faster, but it's weaker and one that is stronger but shoots slower.

Fixed

edit: this is what is should be

Short Bow, Bow, Long Bow, Crossbow, Throwing Star, Throwing Knife, Tomahawk. At the least the should have the stuff bolded/underlined, any less is just lazyness.

Yeah I completely forgot about that when making this thread, my bad. Those two on top of the perk tree should make it more interesting so I safely say I stand corrected lol. Still crossbows would have been a plus.

Bows are stronger and if you give them perk abilities like a bow bash, quick draw, and load while sprinting they could be viable stand alone weapons.

Bash an enemy across his face stunning him, dash away while loading next shot, draw back quickly. *headshot*
Ofcourse if your mobbed down your going to have to pull out a weapon or disappear.

Could be quite fun, but wishful thinking on my part.

Liking the sound of that, especially draw while sprinting, if the trees end up anything like you say it would pretty cool to play an archer.

Marksman wouldnt have been bland if it had

Long Bows, Short Bows, Crossbows, Throwing/Darts/Axes/knives/Stars being able to throw your weapons as a last ditch effort (within reason) had perks like knocking multiple arrows, or being able to see enemy weakpoints, I mean so far we've seen Slow time perks and criticals :shrug:

maybe we can use bow as weapon for melee for last resort

Have you ever effectively walked in a pair of boots fully made out of rigid metal (as in, not just metal plates attached to chainmail or cloth) without having used them before? Can you don any particular suit of armor and suddenly know all the little points on your armor that you should be protecting and those you can use to actively deflect blows? Can you don a set of armor and suddenly know how to move effectively in that armor regardless of how heavy it is, how to compensate for the parts moving together, etc?

Armor skills don't appear to be doing anything because they are still in the same situation that combat was in back in Morrowind's time. In Morrowind you could swing a weapon inches from a person's face and see the weapon go through their body but you would do no damage and would effectively miss. Does that mean that you were doing nothing? No. It meant your opponent dodged your blow (or you just outright missed) but animations did not show any of this happening.

If the armor system was updated to the point that combat has, then we would see our characters move haphazardly (not just more slowly) in armor they are not well versed with and you would actually see how your able to take more blows in your daedric armor as a skilled user versus the person using the same armor but who is unskilled.

BUT ANYWAY,



He speaks truth.

its not bland well to me anyway there is no more satisfying sight than sneaking close enough to get a clear shot but remaining hidden taking aim then firing and then seeing your arrow sink into you foe. and having them crumple down to the ground dead. best part is inspecting the corpse and actually seeing where your arrows hit i myself aim between the first and second vertebrae or if they are facing sideways either the temples or the arteries in the throat. or if they are facing me but do not see me i aim for the eyes.

What I feel is lacking in archery ingame is lack of tactical choices, what do you do if you encounter a bandit? Shoot him! Perhaps add poison to arrow first. Now what if we could choose between things such as fire arrows, perhaps combined with oil for crowd-control. Or maybe knockout arrows that doesn't kill the opposition. These are just two oppurtunities I'm sure there is a lot more that can be added that will make people put more thought in how they handle a situation.

Under what other category could throwing weapons be placed? I am an avid thrower of the tomahawk and a few knives, it does indeed take quite a bit of so-called "marksmanship". Just because one has a sword does not mean that he knows how to properly throw it. I understand that "marksmanship" technically refers to shooting, but given the whole ranged attack scenario and the amount of skill involved, it's a fitting placement.

Marksman ship is not limited to what you can throw if it goes from you leaving your position to them, its marksman ship. which made me wonder why throwing spells never contributed :shrug:

Sneak, one handed weapon, a new skill?

Putting them together with marksmanship is just... wrong.
They serve different purpose, bows and crossbows are mainly for long-medium range, while throwing weapons are short-medium range.
They're more like a different version of spells, rather than long range weapons...

If you can swing a sword, you'll be adequate with an axe.
If you can swing an axe, you'll be adequate with a sword.

If you can throw an axe, you can't necessarily shoot a bow.
If you can shoot a bow, you can't necessarily throw an axe.

They really don't fit together as a skill. Now, if there was a separate Throwing skill, that would be pretty awesome. It could cover everything from throwing stones as distractions to throwing vials of poison to the regular throwing weapons.

Plus Marksman has been renamed Archery I believe, which makes it even less likely that they'll include throwing weapons in it.