Too true, Shadow Warrior. But you know how it is. "Haters gonna hate." End of story. lol To quote a song, "If I could give you the world on a silver platter, would it even MATTER? You'd still be mad at me." lol

Anyway, :foodndrink: to you as well friend. Glad you appreciated the post. I, for my part, hope the marraige and jobs are as well implemented and widely varied as spellmaking and clothing options used to be/ Uh oh. Let me stop myself. I am about to start hating. Lol.

Some features shouldn't be added, even if they're only optional. I'd rather that development time be spent on things that actually make the game better. This is a fantasy "swords and magic" RPG, not The Sims. I don't understand the approach Bethesda is trying to take here. One game can't have it all and still be a good game. There are genres for a reason. When was the last time you were able to freely use and flush a toilet in Call of Duty? Fable? Even WoW? Some features just don't belong, no matter how much people whine and beg for them to be added. Soon, TES games will become bloated because of all the useless crap that just needed to be added in order to grab a few more customers.

Oh, and I wonder if Skyrim will feature homosixual marriage. If not, expect quite a few complaints. Add it, and you'll be flooded with people asking to be able to marry their horse or their sword.. It never ends.

It is creepy, because to be attracted to an animation means that you've lost the barrier between whats real and whats not.

Well, obviously Bethesda and a large amount of fans disagree with you here, so oh well.

^^^THIS

Also in TES you never start as Hero/Villain, you start as noone with Potential, and noones don't kick dragon a$$e$ as simple as they drink skooma
No, noones start with rusty iron toothpick (aka starting weapon) and hunt rats to improve their skills, and maybe, just maybe, after few in-game months of intensive training you'll be able to stand along guards as equal when fighting of dragon
If you want start game as god-character, then maybe you should simply use cheats or cheat-mods, from the beginning of the game
But from my own experience playing god is no fun (boring actually)

Marriages can be useful for acquiring wealth, property, allies, and influence. Lovey-dovey marriages are a fun distraction, but I want power.

It is yet unknown whether or not a game can have it all or not. Some people said The Lord of The Rings could never be filmed. I am sure that, many years ago, many would have said an enormous novel set like Harry Potter could never have been filmed either.

The key to a good sword and sorcery RPG is NOT that it lacks all "sims" like elements. Indeed, the more realistic the simulation, the better, so long as things that are not incompatable with the game world and its lore are not brought in.

Having cars, trucks, three lane highways, jets, machine guns, and cyborgs in a game of this type would damage the game because much of the material would not fit in well with the game world.

But marraiges and lovers, simple occupations and farms, vinyards and yokels, are as much a part of Tamriel as they are the time of Middle-Earth, and the secret wizarding community of Harry Potter, and the far reaches of the galaxy featued in Starwars, and Camelot and Cimmeria, Ancient Greece and Troy etc. etc.

Occupations and Relationships, ESPECIALLY relationships, are facets of social life anywhere you have a society. And a GOOD RPG will have some in game social construct. The better this is, the more immersive the world becomes.

Strip away the jobs, the relationships, platonic AND amourous/romantic, strip away the shops and the inns, the vinyards and the farms, the shepards and the smitties, the taverns and the temples, the brothels and the baronies and the barnyards, the libraries and the lounges, and eventually what you end up with is Mario and Luigi in mages robes and battle armour. You get the Nintendo Entertainment System's original Link:The Legend of Zelda and Castlevania I, all fancied and prettied up with current generation graphics, but without a single new content feature to speak of. At best, you get a cheap "choose your own ending" adventure story, with the illusion of a few minimal options that leave A LOT to be desired.

Fans can be wrong, and Bethesda has made plenty of mistakes in the past. Do you really want to see multiplayer in Skyrim? Or the same NPC interaction from Oblivion?

Marriage is a mistake. It was a joke of a feature in Fable, and will be a joke of a feature in Skyrim. The feel of is supposed to be a lot darker than Oblivion, and yet we're getting both children and marriage. I don't understand how either of those compliment the new environment, or are anything more than lame attempts to break into the mainstream market (which not being in was actually one of the reason why people even played TES games and NOT Fable).

AinurOlorin, marriage and children would have been just as foreign as machine guns and cyborgs in Morrowind and Oblivion. Skyrim, with its much, much darker atmosphere, doesn't seem like a better choice for either of those two features.

Of course fans can be wrong. So can you, right? The same level of humility that you are expecting Bethesda and others to emulate doesn't seem to be what you are shooting for, does it? You seem very confident in a feature you know very little about. You just sound like another "old-schooler" who wants TES to stay "their" way instead of accepting the fact that TES development doesn't revolve around just you. -shrugs-

That can be an easy barrier to cross. By such a measurment, "wet dreams" and all related dreams are "creepy" and yet the overwhelming majority of human beings have, have had, or will have them at some point in life, especially during early to mid adolescence.

People are attracted to movie stars and porm stars who are generally not, and in many cases who will never be, part of their "reality." It is true that people respond to shapes and figures. Eventually, it is probable that graphics will become so true to life, that looking at a video game character will be like looking at top of the line CGI, which in turn will be like looking at a real person.

As to relationships and "liking", people fall into like and sometimes "in love" with fictional characters all the time. Do you know how many people came out of the last Harry Potter film with red eyes and tear stained faces? And before that how many did the same at the end of the Lord of The Rings films? Everyday billions of people, whether while reading a book, or watching a movie, television series, soap opera, or cartoon, cheer for, root for, laud, praise, fantasize about, boo, hiss at, rant and rage at etc. etc. etc. etc. people who hail from fictional universes. It should come as no surprise if people "like" certain characters they encounter in video games.

If people never got attracted to 3d models, they wouldn't be designed to be attractive in the first place. Its not all that farfetched for someone to be attracted to, say Miranda from ME2, because she's designed to be hot. If you can't recognize good 3d modeling, and appreciate the sixual appeal in it, then, my friend, either something's wrong with you, or you're not looking.

So they should just throw in guns and tanks too, right?
It has to evolve right, where our are guns. Fable already did it, so we should expect that down the line right? You're going to kill the series if we just play it your way. I mean why should they give out the creation kit for mods for stupid fluff like marriage and children.

More complaining about this stuff? Why don't the moderators just start an official "I hate Marriage and Jobs in Skyrim, and I'm Going to Whine About It" thread?

First of all, nothing I said implies any of this, so get off of the slippery slope logical fallacy trip now would you. Second, guns, tanks, and anything like it would not fit TES lore, so I don't see Bethesda ever doing anything like that. Can you name something to me that Skyrim is adding that doesn't fit TES lore? I'm guessing Marriage and children don't fit into TES universe for you, right? What was your point again?

I think slippery slope is what this forum is built on half the time. :rolleyes:

Guns and tanks can fit into the lore at any time, why shouldn't they there are mechanical machines. How about that Dwemer in Morrowind, he's on a fancy little machine for walking tanks are totally possible. It's been 200 years since the Oblivion crisis if you look at the game wiki it's thousands of years they're bound to technologically advance sometime, why do you have to slow down the developement of the game and make me play your way with a sword or some unrealistic mage, I should be using a high powered semi-automatic rifle to over throw the world and become emperor spraying the brains of dissenters with skull crushing high velocity lead from my gigantic gun.

Why would you assume I'm against marriage and children? You remember how well the hot coffee mod went over for GTA? What could possibly go wrong here.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. TES games are starting to become something else entirely, and I think that's pushing a lot of the older players away. Is that good for Bethesda? In terms of profit, maybe, but forgetting your roots, in my opinion, isn't worth it.

Like I said before, Skyrim is becoming more Fable/The Sims than anything.. but we already have a ton of games like that. How many games do we have that are like Morrowind? Not many. If becoming mainstream is what Bethesda wants, I think they should pursue that goal with the Fallout franchise and start heading back towards Morrowind with TES. People are STILL playing that game, after all. How many are playing Fable 2?

Once again, slippery slope argument. Second, what exactly is your point here? That adding marriage and children to the game are somehow the equivalent of adding high powered semi-automatic rifles? Really?

i wont get married until Alduin is finished threatening Tamriel. doesn't seem right to settle down if I have to fight A FREAKING GOD. not the... uhh... safest job out there lol. no need to leave Any any more widows than necessary in skyrim haha.

I may, however, hold down a 9-5 for a bit in order to save up some cash to fund my early dungeon diving lol

Okay, I'm going to blaspheme here, and be a cliche jerk.

If you don't like the things that are being implemented into the game so much that you come on the forums and WHINE about them CONSTANTLY, even though whining about them is not going to change the fact that they are in the game, stop posting on the forums, give up on the game, DON'T BUY IT.

/thread

Well, of course you don't think you're wrong. We wouldn't be having this discussion.

Look, I'm sorry if the direction that Bethesda is taking the game doesn't fit your particular "vision", but it fits the vision of the developers. Say your peace, and either don't play it, or adapt to the changes. You haven't even played the game and you've got tons of opinions about how its going to pan out. Mind you, this is an optional feature. For crying out loud, why do you people make so much out of an optional feature that Bethesda is adding for people that want it? What if it was a feature YOU liked? All of a sudden, the tables would be turned, wouldn't they?

And the Sims? Really? Stop exaggerating. These two games will be miles apart in similarities.

Morrowind was a great game, but it wasn't the game that made them rich.

Fans can be wrong. Anyone can be wrong, save the Omniscient. I believe, in this matter, that you are very wrong. I would enjoy simple, drop in/drop out local/couch co-op in just about any game, frankly, so that anology isn't going to get you all that far with me.

I would like MUCH better NPC interaction that what Oblivion offered. And, frankly, I believe that friendships and amourous relationships being available with NPCs is an aspect of the developers attempting to make NPCs more interactive, as all such relationships require a greater degree of INTERACTION.

Marraige is a mistake, you say. Well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but understand that it is nothing more than an opinion. It is not fact. It is subjective rather than objective. What is shyt to you may well be another persons sweetness and sunshine.

For all the flack Fable gets, a huge number of people still pay good money for those games, and a good many of them enjoy them. If that series really had NO redeeming features, Lionhead would have gone bankrupt years ago. Was the fable relationship system perfect? No. It could have been much more immersive. But, having played the game, I can say it was better for having it than it would have been, all other aspects remaining the same, without it.

Darker and edgier. Well, that doesn't automatically exclude relationships and friendships. Bethesda is trying to make an expansive, immersive RPG with plenty of horror elements, certainly, but they are not trying to make a 100% horror movie. If they were looking to make it all darkness and terrors, why bother with villages and sunlit meadows? Those things should be out, and the only counties should be mirrors of the one in Castlevania, with a count MUCH more akin to Alucard or Brahm Stoker's Dracula than to Janus Hassildor in demeanor. Except, wait, scratch the Dracula refference. I forgot, he was in love with that Mina girl, and that technically constitutes a relationship, so he wouldn't work either. Why not set the entire game in a dungeon in the Deadlands of Dagon's corner of Oblivion and be done with it?

And marraiges, lovers and friendships certainly would NOT have been as foriegn to Morrowind and Oblivion as machine guns and cyborgs. Do you know why? Because, while the denizens of those games have never heard of a machine gun or a cyborg, they are quite familliar with marraiges, lovers and friends. There were characters in the game who were, wait for it. . . Married. Emperor Tiber Septim and a 17 year old Queen Barenziah were, wait for it. . . LOVERS! Two of the mages in the Cheydinahal mages guild were having an affair, ALL of the counts and countesses were either married or widowed (the latter, by definition, having been married at some point). The Count in Cheydinahal is rumoured to be having an affair with the castle sorceress! The Count of Bravil wouldn't know what to do with a Mercedes Benz if you drove it through the front gate of the castle and ran over his toes with one. . . but present him with a beautiful young maiden, and I am pretty sure he would understand the possibilities perfectly well.

In order for your assertion about relationships, platonic and erotic alike, being alien to the denizens of a world, that world would have to be one in which there were no marraiges, no erotic affairs, no friendships etc. Such worlds are few and far between, even in the most FAR FLUNG fantasies. . . in large part because a story with no relationships at all is a story most people won't follow for very long.

As long as you can get a prenuptial agreement signed, im down with whatever she wants. But the divorce settlement has to be limited to less than 10% of my holdings, or im gonna see some precious daedric artifiacts go out the windown once im done with that [censored]

Which side would you be on if the developers decided to add tanks, machine guns, jets and cyborgs?

I haven't played Skyrim, but I have played plenty of games that added features like marriage and children. Those features have never actually contributed anything of worth to the game play and were constantly being "flamed" by the players. Could Bethesda pull them off? Maybe, but I don't think they should be putting it to chance with one of the biggest releases they're ever going to have.

"Optional" isn't a solution to every problem. One game can't cater to everyone.

AinurOlorin, name one game where marriage was actually one of the more popular features. And then name one where it actually contributed to the gameplay.

ShadowWarrior, Morrowind netted them a lot more than Oblivion in profits, if I recall correctly. Not too sure about the DLC though.

-steps away from the board and looks around the classroom-

Any questions?