eheh =p

I don't actually use the main MMM mods in my lineup. This .esp is called "Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp". I also run the zones respawn one. At least my oddballness in this regard will help narrow down where this is coming from, assuming it's there.

This .esp is showing many scripts, NPC things, a few game settings, creatures. It's only listed master is fallout3.esm.

edit: I don't feel this could be as simple as drag and drop. All of these creatures have scripts added to them. It seems that scripts would need to go on the new mutants?

Well coolies.
I wasn't going to post these, but hey... You wish is my command.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1369/giantradscorp.jpg.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2733/deadandlooted.jpg.
This one was very cool because I use a longer death cam mod. The game won't go to the load menu, so I got to watch the Enclave walk up and take my nice little rifle. Too bad his AI isn't smart enough to let him loot armor and all the other cool stuff my char was carrying.

Watched the enclave actually loot you?!?! That's real gluttony for punishment, there! eheh.

Yegads man, update to the full MMM (linked, conviniently, at the start of this thread!) The original IS is very old and there's been numerous bug fixes and improvements to IS as part of the full MMM (such as fixing interior spawning Behemoths freezing, more stable cleanup code, IS for vertibird patrol drops, balance changes based from feedback and more) which aren't included in the (now much older) stand-alone IS. The accompanying Zones Respawn is also muchly updated in the full release, including preventing editor-placed corpses that shouldn't respawn from doing so when a cell respawns, among other fixes.

For some reason I thought I had the right version of increased spawns, I'll take a look at the current new download and see what's there.

UGH!

I just installed the latest version of MMM because I want to use the increased-spawns and zones respawn functions.

But, this mod is trying to load things like texture replacements, and that's not what I wanted. When I installed, I did not copy the texture and mesh directories because I do not want those changes, and I suspect that it's applying them by default.

I don't want any changes or additions to the game's art, AI, MOBs, and so on, all I wanted was increased-spawns and zones respawn. Can the latest version of this mod accomplish this?

This kinda svcks because I can tell that the old version of MMM was making the game much more crashy as compared with this new one. This new one performs much better, but I think it's doing more than I asked for.

edit: sigh, even when I made my Super Mutant mod load last using FOMM, somehow it's still trying to force the texture/skin replacements on them, and the mutants are invisible. This is disappointing - - this version makes the game run so much faster.

Sorry Martigen, not sure if you saw this. Just a request/suggestion to see if it is possible to add this. The guy in that mod developed a system for Oblivion that makes NPCs enter an active running state if they see a dead body and start hunting the player down. Is it possible to add to MMM?

Really enjoy your work!

Just wondering if people are having difficulties with mmm and patch 1.5 and broken steel dlc? If so do you think theres going to be a fix for the problems?

k so.. Nobody's said anything. I take this to mean that the increased-spawns and zones respawn functions really don't exist independently in this mod any more outside of the other changes it makes.

edit:

I opened up the files in both FO3edit and GECK and looked at them. The changes I do not want run too deep for me to be able to take out with any chance of success in having a functional set of esp/esms when I'm done.

After realizing the stability problems in the older increased-spawns, there's no way I'll load that .esp again. At least the old version of zones-respawn seems straightforward, stable, and still usable for me.

I'll have to figure out some other way to get what I want, I guess. I really had no idea that MMM had gone this route and changed so much in its later versions without the possibility of not loading these MOB changes.

Yes, that's what the mod does, I thought you knew that? Everything it does is detailed in the first few pages of this thread. Yes, you need to copy the textures and meshes or the mod won't work. I'm not sure why you don't want the variants if you haven't seen them in action yet, they provide variety in the enemies you see (like five related but different Super Mutant skins for eg), but since you haven't installed them you can of course go back to the standalone IS by just removing the MMM .esps.


It was always going this route, IS was just the start, and every thread has detailed the changes as they've developed so it's no mystery! And yes IS is very intricately tied to the many other features in MMM, it needs to be for the various parts to work as a whole, which is precisely why the standalone IS was discontinued. Out of interest what changes specifically don't you like beyond IS? Keep in mind most features are configurable, so you can add or disable components as you see fit. Did you read the readme?


Yeah it will, because it's a highly optimised babe If you have alternative textures for Super Mutant etc you want to use, I can detail how you can use them with MMM replacing those that come with MMM.



Yes I can look at doing a similar thing, I'll add it to the to-do list.



Any issues at the moment are due to 1.5 and Borked Steel. It's been suggested to run 1.4 or before with Fake Patch for maximum compatibility, and as for BS and any possible level list conflicts see the previous page of this thread.

After installing broken steel, when I run the fallout mod launcher, the game crashes.

Loads of times I've posted here, well within the remit of legitimate "Feedback" regarding Geckos [of all varieties]..........again and again, both here and on the Nexus thread, I see newer users report their "newly discovered" bugs with 'em..........all this feedback is ignored utterly, over and over again. Personally speaking, I'm getting fed up "reporting in" about 'em.....["Boss! Boss! Theys' still a-leapin' and a launchin' Boss!"] and/or the purely unfunny fact that the no-Gecko plugin [quite catagorically, extensively play-tested] just doesn't work and they still appear ingame to repeatedly launch skywards in an endless loop which breaks immersion and is just plain annoying at this point. I dont know why such an obviously defective element is consistantly included in each new MMM update [apparantly largely unchanged] and why any feedback about the situation is ignored. Is it the officicial position that there is no problem with 'em? Am I the only one who has a problem with the ingame launching? Maybe I'm imagining it? It seems to me that a quality Mod like MMMf3 is being extensively let down by this one element......I know things get bugged and buggy sometimes and fixes need to be worked out and released....I am immensely greatful to Martigen for this current excellent mod [and indeed, his huge body of work for Beth titles down the years]. Still though, in this regard it seems like user feedback is being totally ignored and I just "don't get it" as to why.....It would be nice if here were some sort of "reply" regarding the ongoing problem and any possible fixes or patches etc...afterall, all the newer creatures such as floaters and so on must have had "teething toubles" too what with their vastly original bodies and so on and yet they work fine.

Yeah... I probably sound more put-downy than I really mean. I'm glad the mod exists and that so much interesting and new stuff is in it, and many people enjoy it. A lot of quality stuff is in there.

But for me, personally, it's not the right direction. I don't really want to go into what's not right for me about it because I don't feel you should necessarily change it. What's important is that it do what you want and like with it, and it stay quality, and I can tell that's what you've been doing. I don't design Phalanx for what other people want, and I wouldn't ask you to do any differently with your mod.

I've read through what it does already, have read through the thread in the past as the various releases came out. The whole time, I didn't want a number of the key changes in my game. That's why I never updated, it was natural not to. I had seriously thought the whole time that one could unselect all of the MOB changes and leave increased-spawns live, and I thought I had the current version of increased spawns, so all that put together meant I never found out any differently.

I'm sounding down about things because I now see that it's necessary to stop using this apparently ancient version of Increased-Spawns because of its performance issues, and I know of no replacement for it. And its kinda frustrating because your mainline performs well but I can't use it. So I'm sorta stuck for a while. Increased-Spawns + zones respawn was like the third most important mod group that I was using. A critical group, really.

I'm curious, is there any way to ameliorate the stuttering caused by MMM? It seems odd that with a computer such as mine (E8400, GTX 275, 4 gigs of ram) that after doing a clean-boot and ensuring the H.D is fragmented that I get the stuttering. Though I'm guessing this is more of an engine or coding issue with Fallout rather than anything hardware related. I only ask because it's something that is pretty jarring to me. (Big lag spots >>)

Sounds like you need to be talking to Bethesda then? Sorry but I can't help if Borken Steel is the issue, as I don't have access to, you know, fixing Bethesda's game.



Unfortunately, I don't get paid to do this, so you have to wait until I have free time to mod when I'm not working to make a living. For the record RC2 already has the next test solution in for fixing this vanilla Fallout 3 bug (I do hope you're emailing Bethesda too, right? It's not my job to fix their game). Also, I made a plugin for you to test one fix and you never got back to me, but it sounds like it doesn't work. As I don't have much time to play and no one can send me a repeatable save of the issue, it's going to take time testing various fixes with each release until we find one that works.



Well, so much of it is configurable from the optional .esps and the global variables (which you can make your own optional .esps to tweak if you want) so which parts aren't configurable in this way that you'd like? Just the variant skins? Beyond that and the NPC tattoos, pretty much everything else is optional. I.e, if you run MMM plus all the 'No...' plugins but with the IS plugins you're getting vanilla plus IS.

Beyond that, I can look at doing one more update for IS to fix some bugs that can be fixed with it in that standalone form, but not all the updates could be carried across (because they rely on interaction with other parts of the mod) and obviously this won't be as high as priority to get done as the main mod.



That is odd. My machine is similar to yours, only your graphics card is better, and I don't get stuttering. I think something else is wrong with your setup (OS? drivers? ini settings? other mods?)

Well, with all due respect, the "Launching Deathclaw Skeleton" situation maybe is a Vanilla issue but Geckos are not vanilla creatures, however the decision was at some point taken to use a known suspect skeleton for them [and stick doggedly with it ever since], which makes it all "non-vanilla", I would say. One of the suggestions I made [which have been mostly ignored] was that perhaps that choice of skeleton was a poor one and that maybe it was time to rethink Geckos as quadropeds of some sort to keep 'em from launching......I did indeed test the Plugin and PMed you about the results....[I found that, unfortunately, the geckos still launched and there were other ...oddities apparant].......I have a boundless Respect for you and your work and enjoy MMMF3 immensely. I am further aware that the Geckos are not something that you personally whipped up in an Idle moment and am not seeking to blame you for Beths short-comings in any manner. I merely sought to express my frustration at the on-going irritation of the pesky things launching in every new MMMF3 update since it quite spoils the feeling of overall excellence that MMMF3 enbodies in its look, "feel" and overall ombiance as one travels through it.

Bit of a short reply but in regards to Broken Steel and it crashing it should be easily solved by modifying load order as by default MMM is older than BS so you'll get Fallout3.ESM followed by MMM.ESM and BrokenSteel.ESM whereas MMM should be the last one to load. (Bit uncertain how ESM files handle each other in this game though.)

Also I'm pretty sure the game and most utilites like FoMM will load the ESM if you activate the ESP file but crashes on start can mean that the ESM isn't loaded.
(From my understanding it'll crash as a ESP file depends on a ESM file that isn't loaded, really simple explanation and a bit basic but should suffice.)



Good mod by the way, not much else I can say as I haven't used it much (That whole 1.5 incompatbility deal with certain modifications though it seems to be rather minor for this mod due to it's ESM format.)

After installing Broken Steel there no problem with MMM for now.
Load order or conflict with another mod is possible source of CTD.
After 1.5 patch relize you must carefully chooze your mods, some of them will no work as intended.

It's a long story... I talked with Elminster about it briefly, and his impression was that I was building more of an FPS balance than an RP setup. That's true about *certain* things, but not all of it ..

Understand that I've never played Oblivion. I've seen a few screenshots, buuuut yeah, that doesn't count for much. I'm coming straight from Fallout 2 basically, and the world I'm wanting to build around me is affected by that and is ignorant of what may have been in Oblivion.

If I have to answer, here's some of the sorts of things - - I don't want variation in wasteland wildlife's size, abilities, or appearance, and I want 99% of it to be positively aggressive. I want to be able to judge what sort of fight I am entering into by noting what kinds of enemies are there, their gear, and their numbers, with no big surprises from individuals. It's great for the numbers of enemies and types to vary between different fights, but not the abilities of individual enemies. The power of individual enemies should always be predictable upon noting what they are and what weapon they have. I don't want faction relations between my enemies that generally make them fight one another in my presence without me having to be crafty to make it happen. I don't want to see an enemy NPC cowering at my feet instead of trying to kill me unless its because I can talk to them and decide to let them go or perhaps recruit them as a follower. I felt that Bethesda in most respects did fine on their interpretation of a Washington DC based Super Mutant skin and texture, with the exception that the gaping-mouth does not un-gape when they are not attacking, which svcks.

It's fundamentally not very different from the vanilla Fallout 3, it's more like, an adjusted version of it. or something. But, it's probably not at all what Oblivion + its version of MMM was like.



That would sure own. I'd be all happy and stuff, then! Whatever you're doing in your mainline increased-spawns makes things run way faster than the old increased spawns. I was stunned at how well it was performing when I fired up the new one and I do not understand why the difference would be so big. I'd be all over that. Combining it with Zones Respawned in the same .esp would be a great match.

* looks around *

I found the problem, i carelessly left the gts mod esp and esms clicked, for some reason it was causing the crash. Sorry for the trouble, I should have paid more attention to my mods.

Having an issue with the ghoul-supplied Night Vision. It's coming on at weird intervals, without my character chewing on eyeballs. It's a real problem when it's daylight outside, ugh.

I can get rid of it by waiting 1-2 hours, but it often comes back. Finally went away the last few hours I played, thank goodness.






heh, you named many reasons why I like MMM. Oh, well, different strokes, I suppose. I agree increased spawns is probably the #1 reason why I use MMM.

Hey, Mart-- noticed a weird report in the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=988902:


A couple of people challenged the wisdom of unticking the main ESP, and I've seen other reports that MMM works fine with 1.5 and BS without any such extreme modifications (which is actually what I would expect for the most part), whereas one other person in the thread seemed to confirm that the main MMM.esp was responsible for their "only crash" with the 1.5 patch. It was suggested that this method be posted here to confirm/refute the necessity of unticking the main ESP under 1.5, or at the very least detailing the potential problems that might be encountered (or not) if one did something so radical.

However, the original poster http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=988902&view=findpost&p=14302564 one way or the other to confirm if his advice is good, or correct, or wise, so he's not going to post here.

I do care, so what's the (likely) scoop? Does MMM only work with patch 1.5 if the main ESP is unticked, leaving only the ESM and possibly such things as IS or IIS-- I think I did hear that 'Tougher Traders' trips the "disappearing non-persistent refs" issue around Megaton, or have I got that wrong too?-- and if so, what is the likely collateral damage?

Or is this a case of "works for this one person for unknown reasons (since the mod by rights shouldn't really work at all without the ESP, or should it)"?

Just check the ESP/ESM file in a program like FO3Edit - http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=637 - and you'll see just what each component does, they should both be used but I'm sure the author of the mod can answer it better.

EDIT: Might as well post some details on what the ESP contains, several creature related references, a lot of faction related changes, several "global" scripts, a number of GMST or "gamesetting" changes, leveled creature lists, leveled item lists, leveled NPC lists, NPC references, race changes, scripts and finally one "actor effect"

Ta wmj. Just replied over there -- if anyone http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=988902&view=findpost&p=14302773.

Just to clarify, I was incredible exhausted when I wrote that... I was so brain dead, I didn't really wanna thing about having a huge debate... I assumed that the esp added spawn points and npcs. I'm obviously wrong... Sorry

Now, to go pass out...