Thank You for the conformation. :goodjob:

I'm not going mad after all. lol

There MAY BE problems on SOME systems when
- using quckload features from console or FOIP-based utilities
- or using native quckload feature of the game
when Fallout 3 is upgraded to version 1.5 or 1.4

This bug affect the whole game, including MMM as well.
Signs of errors after the quick-loading:
-immortal, unable to move opponents
-inoperable bombs
-unoperable bodies (can not to be looted)
-missing treasures and other mod-added exterior objects (1.5 specific)

Bugs (exept last one) can be avoided or corrected by not using quick-load feature (load from the menu) or by reloading the game.
The last one can be temporarily corrected by reinstalling or reenabling of the affected mod at different position in load order, while you are in the affected location, but after reloading bug will return.
In any case- to hell this 1.5 patch for me.

Martigen, sorry for my wrong bug report few days ago, your mod have nothing with all of this

So this problem with 1.5 that everyone is screaming about can be avoided if one doesn't use the quick load? Is that correct? I'm just asking because I've never read that in any of the threads about the impact of 1.5 on mods. Seems an easy enough work around, but I've not seen anyone mention that.

No, it is not.
All, exept last one (1.5 specific) in my previous post, about which everyone is screaming about

I have some odd problems.

First, animations for NPC's and critters does not seem to be working; they move, but in a freezed position, and humans have vertically rotating heads for some reason.
EDIT: The animations work sporadically. Sometimes they do, sometimes they do not.

Here are two examples of the rotating heads:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/suntiger745/Fallout32009-05-0505-13-58-17.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/suntiger745/Fallout32009-05-0505-31-33-98.jpg
If you talk to them their head will pop back into the correct position.

Secondly, I can't loot some creatures. Worker ants (in the Springvale School) and Night Ghouls refused to react when I tried to loot them.
EDIT: Looting works with Molerats, Vicious dogs, Vicious pups, Wanamingos and worker ants outside the school (unique ants in the school?).

I have the latest version of ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated (Abbrevated to AII in both the Data folder and the .ini folder, if that matters).

My load order is as follows:

Fallout3.esm
FakePatch_v1.4.0.6.ESM
ThePitt.esm
Anchorage.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
HairPack.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
greenerworld.esp
TL_Color.esp
Wasteland Weather Overhaul .9.esp
FOOK.esp
FOOK - Anchorage.esp
FOOK - The Pitt.esp
FOOK - Additional Power Armor Training.esp
FOOK - Owned!.esp
FOOK - Reduced Armor Boni.esp
Ghouls Cohabitate.esp
FalssixyT3Conversions.esp
SailorUniform.esp
Trooper_outfits.esp
Persona_and_Secret.esp
CustomRace ModResource.esp
teenrace1.1_hairpack.esp
Alfar.esp
slaveraider.esp
kikaiEquipment.esp
hair_add_npc.esp
eyes_hairpack_en.esp
GalaxyNewsRadio20[M].esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
DUIF3Extras.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp

Total active plugins: 43
Total plugins: 59


Am I just overloading my system?

Wrong load order for the UF3P-s
Fallout3.esm
FakePatch_v1.4.0.6.ESM
ThePitt.esm
Anchorage.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
CALIBR.esm
FOOK.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
HairPack.esm
...
FOOK.esp
...
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp

And in the end you miss MMM-FOOK.esp

Ah, so the Unofficial patches should load before some of the esm's?

Hmm, I have all the eps' that the FOOK documentation asks for...
Do you just mean I should switch the MMM - FOOK.esp to last?



and


(Not a problem for me. It works, it just works oddly. )


I downloaded the 'Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK.esp' from the FOIP compatibility mod thingy precisely so I would have the correct and most recent version of Martigen and FOOK cooperation.
Do I need a 'MMM - FOOK.esp' in addition to the 'Martigens Mutant Mod - FOOK.esp'?
I'll see what adjusting the load order will do.

Thanks for the help so far either way.

Yes, I miss your MMM-FOOK in the list. It must be the last of all MMM's mods.


No, you need only one- from FOIP page. In the FOMM you may check version in the description. If version is RC1- that is correct. As say Martigen, MMM ver.rc11 work fine with MMM-FOOK ver RC1

Loving RC1.11, rising ghouls keep me on my toes all the while in metros! Great work on the armless ghouls Mart, adds a whole new feel to killing ghouls I keep looking back at ghouls I kill nowadays, and I STILL get surprised sometimes. Once, while in Friendship station, I had just cleared a whole room of ghouls (I use Ghoul Rampage! ) and turned away momentarily to unlock a safe. I grabbed the loot, turned back to the ghouls, and saw 5 ghouls rising, in the most unnatural way. I freaked out and unloaded my revolver into their heads with VATS, before they could overwhelm me.

Now for a small bug report. I've seen ghouls reduced to ash piles and goo rise back up an intact ghoul, which, even for a game, defies logic too much I was unable to loot the ash piles and goo after I killed the rerisen ghouls, they showed "Open" but I couldn't do anything to them. Is this intended? Other then this, everything works great so far! :goodjob:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa305/Tehusa07/Ghoulwithnoarms.jpg Lol. When I found this ghoul, I laughed for a good 5 - 10 min.

Yeah, great work on the armless ghouls and having them rise in front of you. http://i41.tinypic.com/17zvac.jpg It's a lot of fun and even though I'm used to it from your mod of zombies resurrecting themselves in Oblivion, I still get caught off guard once in awhile and they get me to jump.

Come back here, I'll bite your knees off!

The Black Knight-Ghoul always triumphs!

I just came across a strange bug when passing the Outcast Fort. Not sure if MMM affects the Outcast Spawns there, but there was one naked outcast immediately outside the fort. I chalked it up to some random bug and moved on, only to find an outcast patrol consisting of two naked Outcasts and a Protectron not far from there.
Is this a known bug in MMM or vanilla?

After installing or reinstalling of MMM (or other NPC or weapon/armor changing mod) you must wait indoors respawn time (default 3 days) before changes will take effect

Martigen: Your inbox is full, so i'll ask here - did you get that email with the FOMM script and were my instructions clear enough? If you haven't had time to look at it yet, no worries - I'm sure you are busy with RL or RC2

Yeah been rather flat out with RL and RC2. The latter is almost finished but I need an updated skele from LN for a new creature :) And I'm working around bizarre engine bugs with adding abilities (or 'functions') to NPCs and creatures that I need, such as the wounding and staggering effects. The code for these features works totally fine, the problem is some bizarre engine bug that's triggered when you call a script from another one. For eg main script --> function script = function works but NPC mysteriously can't attack anymore, instead stands around shouting rude things but unable to act. Do this, however: main script -> intermediate script -> function script = and everything is back to normal, NPC working as he should. I.e with no code change to the actual function, but simply calling it from a script which itself is called from the master script first -- simply adding an extra layer in the calling process -- and the bizarre bug doesn't appear.

Unfortunately I spend more time trying to work around these engine quirks than I do actually adding new features, which is kinda sad. Even though Fallout 3 has some nice new functions for modders, the engine is a complete POS compared to Oblivion, with bugs out the wazoo. The irony is not lost that all the DLCs are buggy as well, and even the official patches introduce even more bugs. Bethesda releases have always been buggy ever since Daggerfall, but unfortunately the company's track record is getting even worse, not better. It's almost frustrating enough to give up modding them. Certainly if their next game doesn't improve, there won't be any MMM mods for it.

Even Penny Arcade has weighed in: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/5/6/

When the quality of a company's products becomes a laughing stock, it's time to fire your Q&A and programmers and get in some fresh blood.

Martigen, will be your next version work with all versions of the game and with fake patch? I was try to play in F3 1.5 and return to 1.0+fake patch in result

update to 1.4 and use fake patch. that's what i do and no problems till now

Any way to install this without the new creatures? (night ghouls/super mutant behemother)

What UI mod is this?

It looks like the latest version of the Darnified UI with the optional meters activated.

Sad to hear the modding is throwing wrenches in the works for you Martigen. Even with the quirks I get when using MMM (which might or might not be related to it, I honestly dn't know) it is still a great mod that enhance the gameplay quite a bit. Especially the enemy faction/AI.

Who knows maybe its the inexperianced "new blood" making things wonky :toughninja: They might be hiring a bunch of programmers to do piece work like they did with TES 2 DAGGERFALL but all the pieces arent working together as smoothly as expected. It could just be the game engine showing its age big time which would be odd considering how robust and alive it is with OBLIVION.

A quick question/suggestion, I've been looking around Fallout Nexus and came across http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4616 it make me think" Wow, the characters looks so varied" and it made me thinking is it possible to implement something like that to the NPCs and Hostiles used in MMM for variesty and flavor?
In my opinions those items shouldn't even be visible or pickable via looting or pickpocketing but sure would spice up MMM even more.
You are doing great work, can hardly imagine playing the game without your mod anymore.

not sure if its due to broken steel or the 1.5 patch but i cant use your mod anymore without a bunch of game breaking glitches ..ill get a super exposed green pip boy sometimes that i cant even read ..or other times the sound will just cut out from the pip boy and dialogues with npc's will be silent as well ..after removing your mod it works fine ..but i want to use your mod ..what a drag .. hope this can be fixed ...i really love this mod ..peace ..also im not using other mods just mmm and yes i have the load order correct it just started acting weird after the patch and broken steel install

from Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm post
"Guys -- problems with slow motion creatures and NPCs, problems with saving -- these are all the Fallout 3 engine.

You really need to be reading the official forums right now, there are bug reports from patches 1.4 and 1.5 that cause the above, as well as issues when using quick saves and auto saves.

The gist right now is don't run anything larger than the 1.1 patch, and always save to a new slot, to avoid issues. If you want fixes from patches post 1.1, you need to use the Unofficial Patch. Again, read the official forums there's far too much information than I'm going to go into here."