[RELz] Mart's Mutant Mod 1.0 RC 3.0 : Fallout 3

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:27 am

Well, I run on an old rig with the lowest settings and I can play with very few crashes. It could be that issue. Did you try making a merged patch? Open FO3Edit, load all your mods. Select all your mods, right click and choose create merged patch. Load it up and play.

Also, what patch are you using?

I'm using 1.0.015+fakepatch. What does creating a merged patch do, does that alter the mods themselves?

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:28 am

I'm using 1.0.015+fakepatch. What does creating a merged patch do, does that alter the mods themselves?

It simply creates a patch. It does not alter the mods themselves. This patch merges all leveled lists etc. for greater compatibility and hopefully smoother running of the game.

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:58 am

Have the spawns in the Jefferson Museum been purposely changed? I started a new save with the latest update and the Museum was filled with Scorpions instead of Super Mutants.

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:28 am

As long as we're inviting folks to post load orders, here's mine:
...
I've had periodic crashes since the new MMM update, usually at or near spawn points. I'm afraid to use increased spawns at all, that seems to make it worse. Any ideas?

I would recommend cleaning your save from MMM by using the following steps :

Go into your megaton home. Wait for 4 days. Save and quit.
Disable all MMM ESMs and ESPs.
Load savegame. Wait another 4 days (this is probably redundant, but eh, it takes 2 minutes.) Save again.
Re-enable MMM. Load savegame. Save again.

Then try going it and see if that fixes it. It's done so for me a few times already.

Edit : I should have read on, as it looks like you've done that already...

Also, I get much better results by having MMM.esp right beneath the ESMs, BEFORE all the other mods, rather than having it be last with all the optionals. Don't know why, and Mart says to put it last with the optionals, but for me it's more stable by having it first.

Hope it helps

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:04 am

1) Bouncing Corpses is most likely incorrect Rigidbody setting Inertia, Mass, Restition(Elasticity) and such.
2) Dead Creatures that have parts of the body distort baddly (limbs that flip around or move out of thier natural position are usually bad Constraint settings.
3) Now limbs that bounce franticly and refuse to settle to a resting position can be a combination of both but usually leads back to parent Rigidbodies not having a high enough Inertia value and as such the parent bodies fight for positions with the child rigidbodies non-stop until one of them disables, this is very easy to cause on skeletons that have alot of rigidbodies all chained or a situation where ther are alot of rigidbodies all children to one parent... http://saidenstorm.googlepages.com/kingsfieldmantrap these guys start off with a single rigid body and 5 branch off that one 4 for the lower petals and the one going up chains through 26 in a row leading to a single body with 10 children -> this guy had nightmare setup all over the place it was unstable at the Top, Center and Bottom took me forever to get him to play nice when it got killed.

You cant the BSBounds is the collision shaped used to determine actor root collisions with world objects and its also is the node that emits melee damage and takes melee damage -> its hard coded and can not be altered, Projectiles collide with rigid bodies within the skeleton.nif so they must be present or you end up with a situation like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvDslhfWs8 Video From Before I Added all the Collisions and Constraints (the critter had only 1 rigid body at the time of the video), the creature is nearly 100% involunerable to projectile weapons because they are unable to hit anything.

Thanks a lot Saiden it seems I need to play with my collusion set or build a new one until it behaves like expected.Your mantrap example helped a lot I think my problem is the that all my rigidbodies is children of a single parent with a bad :dancing:

constraint setup.You've been a great help.

Thanks again. :tops:

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:54 pm

Rather busy atm, will reply to others later, but:

Have the spawns in the Jefferson Museum been purposely changed? I started a new save with the latest update and the Museum was filled with Scorpions instead of Super Mutants.

Not intentionally. In testing for the Project Purity issue reported, I re-assigned a level list, and I accidentally left it in :/. Will make another update...

On the crashing some people are still reporting, it's incredibly hard to track down. There's nothing 'in the mod' to change to prevent this, MMM is simply using functions of Fallout to place with more actors and -- bar the increased load on your machine and the inherent bugs with the game like memory leaks -- there's not much I can do. However, in past testing I noticed a bad NIF could cause an instant CTD, and so I'm now thinking one of the hundreds of new nifs for variant creatures could be a problem (since, as people have been reporting, crashes when they happen appear to be as creatures spawn). Tracking this down could be very hard indeed. I have one other theory for the source to try first, but I may need people to do a lot of repetitive legwork in finding any problem nifs.

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:10 pm

It simply creates a patch. It does not alter the mods themselves. This patch merges all leveled lists etc. for greater compatibility and hopefully smoother running of the game.

Thanks. Where should that merged patch load---last?

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:58 am

Rather busy atm, will reply to others later, but:

Not intentionally. In testing for the Project Purity issue reported, I re-assigned a level list, and I accidentally left it in :/. Will make another update...

On the crashing some people are still reporting, it's incredibly hard to track down. There's nothing 'in the mod' to change to prevent this, MMM is simply using functions of Fallout to place with more actors and -- bar the increased load on your machine and the inherent bugs with the game like memory leaks -- there's not much I can do. However, in past testing I noticed a bad NIF could cause an instant CTD, and so I'm now thinking one of the hundreds of new nifs for variant creatures could be a problem (since, as people have been reporting, crashes when they happen appear to be as creatures spawn). Tracking this down could be very hard indeed. I have one other theory for the source to try first, but I may need people to do a lot of repetitive legwork in finding any problem nifs.

Martigen- in the nexus topic I post something about possible crashes.
If you need peoples with legs- my legs in your full control 6 hours at day

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:48 am

Thanks. Where should that merged patch load---last?

Yes

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:09 pm

My first test results

Base things
Fallout3 ver 1.5 masterupdated
No DLC-s, no mods exept
FWE, CASM and 2-hours respawn time

Begin the game as raider, use console TAI toggle.
Fast travel to Springvale school
There is three respawn points with one raider in each.

No crashes at this test

-Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.
-Come interior, killall, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.
-Killall exterior, Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.
-Killall exterior, Come interior, killall, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.

Second test.
No DLC-s, no mods exept
FWE, CASM and 2-hours respawn time,
MMM.esm, MMM.esp, all no.esp, MMM-FWE CP
In aditional, I create and load in the end of load order plugin, which set MMMzIncreasedSpawnsMax to 0, so IS will be disabled for now (MMM-FWE_noIS.esp)

No crashes at this test

Begin the game as raider, use console TAI toggle.
Fast travel to Springvale school
There is three respawn points with one raider in each.
-Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.
-Come interior, killall, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.
-Killall exterior, Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.
-Killall exterior, Come interior, killall, wait 3 hour, come exterior- the same three raiders.

Third test.
No DLC-s, no mods exept
FWE, CASM and 2-hours respawn time,
MMM.esm, MMM.esp, all no.esp, MMM-FWE CP, increased spawns enabled (I disable my mod MMM-FWE_noIS.esp, so IS was enabled by MMM-FWE CP)

No crashes at this test

Begin the game as raider, use console TAI toggle.
Fast travel to Springvale school
There is three respawn points with
1. one vanilla and two MMM raiders in two points
2. One wanilla and one MMM raiders in one point. So- totally 8 raiders.

-Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior Number of raiders is 6= 2+2+2
-Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior Number of raiders is 5=3+2+1
-Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior Number of raiders is 7=3+2+2
-Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior Number of raiders is 6=2+3+1
-killall exterior, Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior Number of raiders is 6=1+3+2
-Killall exterior, Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior Number of raiders is 5=2+2+1
-Killall exterior, Come interior, wait 3 hour, come exterior Number of raiders is 5=1+1+3

Forth test.
The same as previous. Just to be sure
Begin new game, result is the same

All is OK for now.
Next step- DLC-s and MMM-BS CP enabled

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:28 am

Rather busy atm, will reply to others later, but:

Not intentionally. In testing for the Project Purity issue reported, I re-assigned a level list, and I accidentally left it in :/. Will make another update...

On the crashing some people are still reporting, it's incredibly hard to track down. There's nothing 'in the mod' to change to prevent this, MMM is simply using functions of Fallout to place with more actors and -- bar the increased load on your machine and the inherent bugs with the game like memory leaks -- there's not much I can do. However, in past testing I noticed a bad NIF could cause an instant CTD, and so I'm now thinking one of the hundreds of new nifs for variant creatures could be a problem (since, as people have been reporting, crashes when they happen appear to be as creatures spawn). Tracking this down could be very hard indeed. I have one other theory for the source to try first, but I may need people to do a lot of repetitive legwork in finding any problem nifs.

I'm not all that worried about it. FO3 simply crashes a lot, why would this be related to your mod? I mean, the game crashes vanilla, if you start adding massive mods such as yours, it seems reasonable to assume it will keep crashing, right?

The only crashes I keep getting anymore are ones where I kill a creature in VATS (always the last one of a battle too...) and then I CTD as soon as the death animation would start (at least, I think so.)
That's happened to me three times now. Crashes when going near spawn zones or something like that have not happened.

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:36 pm

There seems to be a conflict with Point Lookout as well. The new Mirelurk variants (the regular type, not the Swamplurks) become friendly while MMM is enabled, and their names don't appear under their health bars when highlighted, nor can they be looted. In one section of the DLC, I got a persistent CTD when a handful of these mirelurks were spawned at once.

Given that its DLC, I'm not sure if you have any desire to fix this issue, but I thought I'd just bring it to your attention. ^_^

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:21 am

Hmmmm....someone released a patch for Broken Steel, so they might do one for Point Lookout. I believe it was the FOIP team-you might want to bring it to their attention.

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:11 am

There seems to be a conflict with Point Lookout as well. The new Mirelurk variants (the regular type, not the Swamplurks) become friendly while MMM is enabled, and their names don't appear under their health bars when highlighted, nor can they be looted. In one section of the DLC, I got a persistent CTD when a handful of these mirelurks were spawned at once.

Given that its DLC, I'm not sure if you have any desire to fix this issue, but I thought I'd just bring it to your attention. ^_^

I can confirm this, it would be nice if this could be looked into.

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:15 am

damn it! I broke my game (it seems)
I accidentally install 1.6 patch and now have not working FOSE.
In any case- I catch it!
I can repeat bug with "increased" spawn.
More will tell tomorrow, when I recover my game and make some more testing, but here it is.

Base things
Fallout3 ver 1.5 masterupdated
No DLC-s, no mods exept
FWE, CASM and 2-hours respawn time,
MMM.esm, MMM.esp, all no.esp, MMM-FWE CP, increased spawns enabled (by MMM-FWE CP)

Begin the game as raider, use console TAI toggle.
Fast travel to Springvale school

There is three respawn points with
1. one vanilla and two MMM raiders in two points
2. One wanilla and one MMM raiders in one point. So- totally 8 raiders.

-Come interior, wait 3 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 6= 2+2+2
-Come interior, wait 3 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 5=3+2+1
-Come interior, wait 3 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 7=3+2+2
-Come interior, wait 3 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 6=2+3+1
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 8=2+3+3
-Come interior, wait 48 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 12=4+4+4
-Come interior, wait 96 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 15=5+5+5
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 17=5+6+6
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 18=5+6+7
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 21=7+7+7
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 23=8+8+7
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 25=8+9+8
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 29=9+10+10
-Come interior, wait 3 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 6=2+3+1
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 9=3+3+3

There is always 3 raiders from fallout (one in each respawn point), all other- from MMM
There is no difference what we will do with the raiders- kill them or leave alive, result is the same

That's all for now.
Seems to me- bug occur when we miss one or more respawn periods, in this case one or more respawn points generate additional MMM raider to already existed (which is normal). But previous spawn not erased by some reason
Tomorrow I will try to discover minimal time interval, which needed to repeat this bug, but seems to me- this is 5-6 hours.
And here is repeatable crashes in some time intervals, I try to reproduce it too.

Before fix it seems the only solution id- increase respawn time. It will make more difficult for the player to miss respawn period.
And... this bug affect mostly locations with big number of enemies, such as Moll or Capitol building.

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:04 pm

However, in past testing I noticed a bad NIF could cause an instant CTD

Is there a commonality among nif files that makes them "bad"? Something that somebody could write a utility to check for, I mean?

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:03 am

Odd little Glitch I noticed. I randomly got the night ghoul eye night vision randomly. I hadnt even killed one yet, but I was near some.

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:22 am

Thanks for the update :goodjob:

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:32 am

There seems to be a conflict with Point Lookout as well. The new Mirelurk variants (the regular type, not the Swamplurks) become friendly while MMM is enabled, and their names don't appear under their health bars when highlighted, nor can they be looted. In one section of the DLC, I got a persistent CTD when a handful of these mirelurks were spawned at once.

Given that its DLC, I'm not sure if you have any desire to fix this issue, but I thought I'd just bring it to your attention. ^_^

I think that's fine that not everything thinks you're hitler all the time

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:19 am

patched to 1.6 then downloaded point lookout. these were my only changes to my normal load. now the ghouls skins are acting strangely. as I mouse over them, they rotate through various skins and I have no clue what else, looks like I am going through the layers of the ghoul itself.

can someone else verify this please?

I can still kill and loot them, its just very hard on my old eyes.

Ok, seems MMM and either the 1.6 patch or the point lookout isnt working well together. I went to baileys crossroads, saw the first ghoul in it, and crashed.

so I removed point lookout, and redid it, still crashed. removed MMM and it worked. put point lookout back in, still works.

Had 3 ctds in other areas that had varient skins as well, but they were exterior cells, and time wise, far apart.

edit: also, the ghouls exploding are preventing them from rising afterwards.

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:34 pm

I loaded up MMM on an existing character and I went from hardly any crashes to a crash once every 45 minutes are so. I was not using MMM until just then. So it is not a issue with clearing the save game data.

The crashes could be related to how the mod add new spawns by script or one of the new nifs. I don't think it is related to system horse power because I have been running at max setting with great frame rates previously.

I was getting crashes in all new prieviously unexplored areas so I don't think it is related to removing the old spawns.

I seem to remember that someone from Oblivion made a test cell area where you could just create new spawns. Maybe something like that could help isolate what nif is bad.

I hope you get the issues ironed out because I just love all the extra spawns and battles! But unfortunately stability has to take precedence.

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:43 pm

Hmm well today I got Point Lookout and patched the game up to 1.6. I installed the new version of MMM and... well, I'm getting the ol 'game freezes and sound loops forcing a total restart problem'. I'm used to seeing the game ctd but this is rather annoying. I've tried a clean save and all that. It seems to only happen in combat. Aside from 1.6 and PL; RC3 is the only new change.

Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Slower Levelling - slow.esp
UPP - Pack 1.esp
UPP - Original Perks.esp
UPP - Quest Perks.esp
UPP - Pack 2.esp
UPP - Experience Perks.esp
Better Companions NonEss.esp
Fellout-SOTD.esp
Fellout-Anchorage.esp
Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp
DelayAnchorage.esp
DelayThePitt.esp
GalaxyNewsRadio100[M].esp
Fun with Karma Redone.esp
Dread Dogmeat.esp
Burnification.esp
FleshBurningPlasma.esp
sc_slaves_stick_around.esp
T3T_OutcastTechSupport.esp
FOOK.esp
FOOK - Anchorage.esp
FOOK - Anchorage hotfix.esp
FOOK - The Pitt.esp
MyFOOK - The Pitt Ammo Press.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Feral Ghoul Rampage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK.esp

Total active plugins: 42
Total plugins: 49

» Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:37 pm

@ beancounter and BurnsBabyBurns
It is sad that you have such problems.
Fallout is very tricky game, it can run with problems even in vanilla, but after mod's adding things can be much more complicated.
On my computer (not bad one) the game can't be without crashes and freezing at all- without ini tweaking. After ini change it is possible to play.
With all my mods installed it can run almost without problems for two days (with 1-2 crashes in a day), but then will crash each half-hour. Much depends from the temperature in the apartment.

So- I'm sure MMM have bugs for now, but they are not major. MMM is in beta stage, so be patient, bugs can be corrected. I'm sure Martigen will make all what in his possibilities, and I am confident in his professionalism, which confirmed with the list of his mods.
But if it will be impossible- well, it will be a choice. Or play with remaining bugs or don't use MMM. For me I already make this choice- without MMM I don't see Fallout 3

And, just from the two-days experience, fallout 1.5+ masterupdate mach more stable then fallout 1.6.

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:44 am

I suspect that its probably 1.6 doing something which hasnt been compensated for yet. Eagerly awaiting the input of the modders in this field for info. Generally though MMM has been stable for me since its first releases.

» Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:13 am

I can confirm this, it would be nice if this could be looked into.

I can as well.