Martigen- in my game enclave soldiers near super-duper mart and Dukoff's place present no more on the lover levels of my Chosen One. It is your work or changes in the 1.6 patch? In any case- this is good.

Im having crashes with 1.6 patch and all of DLC's installed. When I activate MMM's Broken Steel plugin, game wont start. Just crashes before entering main menu. Disabling this will fix issue, but I think it would make other issues because of Broken Steel DLC...

Are you sure you use MMM RC 3.1?
Do you have BS CP loaded after all another MMM files?

Both yes. Just upgraded RC3.1 and Broken Steel plugin is last to load at FOMM. Activating that plugin breaks the game from starting.

This is very strange. Can you post your load order please?

Load order is following:

Fallout3.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
VDSP-01.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Broken Steel.esp

Total active plugins: 7
Total plugins: 20

Okay my friend, where's Broken Steel.esm?
Btw, incase if you just didn't moved Broken Steel contents to your Fallout3/Data folder, I think doing so might be solution to you.

No wonder loading the MMM-BS plugin crashes your game, you don't have BS! Remove that plugin, or get broken steel. If you have downloaded it, then you'll need to move it into the fallout data folder from(Vista: C:\Users\{username}\appdata\local\microsoft\DLC\{deeper, folder name changes from user to user}) or somewhere like that on XP(do a search for brokensteel.esm on your computer, should find it if you have it). Oddly enough, the video files aren't in a folder, so you'll have to put them in one in your data folder(the Video folder).

So there isn't way to use MMM without replacing DLC files?

I really wanted to have those achievements...

Since I don't have enough information related to archivement, I could be wrong.
But as far as I know, if your mod have DLC esm as master file, its impossible to playing it with archievement.

So, I think there's 2 option for you.

1.Play DLC without mod. when you've done, load your pre DLC saved game and play with mod, to enjoy differences.
(To do that, take a look on YX33A's post just above in your post. all information required to move DLC contents are there.)
2.Forget about archievement.

As I said I could be wrong with archievement obtainable setting.
But assumuing I'm correct on this part, I would recommend you to chose option 1.
I think most of folks at here played in vanilla setting and move on to new game with mod, to enjoy different game play experiences.

Ok, replacing DLC's solved problems so thanks for help. Infact replacing DLC's also fixed crashing when exiting game. Its shame that this game is so full of bugs...

I've been following Sarah Lyons around for fun when I had a crash that persisted on reload. I wandered around in each direction for a while until I found the culprit. It is a raider that was following me and when I would outrun it (change cells maybe), the game would crash. The raider has no name or health bar when you aim at it and when killed removes the crash. This seems to be related to the crashes I was having prior to this latest release. I"m starting to wonder if it is a vanilla bug.

It may be. I remember paladin Hoff(?) with his friend, they come to my house and rob me each morning after their rescue

Hey all,

Been rather busy lately, but started work on fixing the issues in RC 3.1, still trying to get to a 'stable' release, give or take the stability of Fallout anyway. I'm reverting some other changes, mainly around ragdolls that were added, to try and get back what we had before. In my brief testing a vanilla, totally unmodded, new-game start save will still crash after 30 odd minutes of running around at high speed loading dozens and dozens of cells spawning hundreds of enemies.

Conclusion: vanilla Fallout 3 is buggy and crashes, without doing anything to it, all on its own.

However, and in my testing, MMM RC1 was no more stable or unstable than vanilla, crashing around the same time. This is good news, RC1 doesn't make the game anymore unstable (although if the crashes are related to memory leaks, it's possible spawning more actors with Increased Spawns may accelerate the time before vanilla Fallout 3 crashes).

What's also clear though is that RC2 and RC3 still cause it to happen much sooner. So, I'm going through the RC2 and RC3 changes with a fine-toothed comb and trying to uncover which changes made it worse and restoring them.

Apart from that -- delamer check your PMs please

Damn- I miss your PM-s
Today will do.

I agree with you. I remember time when I play Fallout3 1.0 without any mods and dlc-s. There was unstable regions which crash the game on the clear place. Each time, when I begin new game, it was different region(s) It can be Rivet Sity exterior, Scrapyard, Fort Independence, Bethesda Ruins, Springvale (not school)


I have serious suspicions against sound engine. Some time ago I have CTD-s when use some music replacers. It was sound resources without any ESP-s, they was played normally with any player, but always crash the game. And it was until I totally reconvert all music from this mods with DB power converter. Until now I have probably the same problems. I hear shoot from the enemy- crash, I hear sound when loot- crash, I hear the voice- crash, I hear enemy's moan- crash. So- it is possible that F3 may have problems with some sound hardvare/codecs and of course- I have such hardware
And I must add to this- I always was carefull when choose my hardware, I am trying with this to ensure compatibility with most games- from old to new ones. And there is only two games, with which I have major problems, one of this-Fallout3


Some times ago I use many texture replacers- and it was the hell until I remove all of this. Now my game mach more stable, even with MMM IS. But after long play it is inevitable to make restart. Fortunately, this happens automatically for me mostly

There is comparison tests between different versions of MMM

First test

Base things
Fallout3 ver 1.6 masterupdated
No DLC-s, no mods except
FWE, CASM DarnUI,and 2-hours respawn time,
MMM RC1 (MMM.esm, MMM.esp, all no.esp, Increased Spawns

Begin the game as raider, use console TAI toggle.
Fast travel to Springvale school

There is three respawn points with one vanilla and one MMM raiders in each point. So- totally 6 raiders.
All raiders groups will be mentioned from up to down. So- first group will be at upper level, second- ground level, third- underground level.
Undeground group spawn near the toilet, sometimes one raider spawn in toilet itself, in this case I will show him in ()

-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 7= 2+2+2(+1)
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 9=2+4+2(+1)
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 13=3+5+4(+1). KillAll
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 7=3+2+2. Kill last two
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 8=4+2+2. Kill last two
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 10=5+3+2. Killall

-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 14=6+4+4
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 17=8+5+4
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 19=9+6+4. killall
-Come interior, wait 24 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 22=10+7+5
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 24=11+8+5. killall
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 5=2+2+1


Conclusions

1.There is always 3 raiders from fallout (one in each respawn point), all other- from MMM

2.There is big difference in what we will do with the raiders- kill them or leave alive, all not killed raiders will be added to the next spawn (or still be here)
-If we killall raiders and visit this place again between first and second respawn time- number of raiders will be normalized
-If we killNotAll/don'tKillAtAll raiders and visit this place again between first and second respawn time- number of raiders will be increased/significantly increased
-If we miss respawn time and visit this place again- number of raiders will be increased in any case, not dependant from our actions.

3.There is big slowdown when respawn occur, when all raiders is killed at once and after killing (from big number of bodies, I presume).
4.No crashes so far.
5.And so far there is no advantages from returning to old spawn method IMHO- at least in the unnatural Increased Spawns and perfomance aspects.


Second test

Base things
Fallout3 ver 1.6 masterupdated
No DLC-s, no mods except
FWE, CASM DarnUI,and 2-hours respawn time,
MMM RC2 (MMM.esm, MMM.esp, all no.esp (except skeleton decay), Increased Spawns

Begin the game as raider, use console TAI toggle.
Fast travel to Springvale school
...
to be continued
...

Crazy question, did anyone else have the jefferson memorial contain scorpions? I entered it for the first time in my new game and it had no super mutants only scorpions. However, I have a fair number of mods, so I cannot be sure it was the cause of the issue.

On a side note, its silly how much harder scorpions are compared to mutants. Think I will have to d/l the mutant perk mod

Second test

Base things
Fallout3 ver 1.6 masterupdated
No DLC-s, no mods except
FWE, CASM DarnUI,and 2-hours respawn time,
MMM RC2 (MMM.esm, MMM.esp, all no.esp (except skeleton decay), Increased Spawns

Begin the game as raider, use console TAI toggle.
Fast travel to Springvale school

There is three respawn points
All raiders groups will be mentioned from up to down. So- first group will be at upper level, second- ground level, third- underground level.
Undeground group spawn in the toilet, sometimes raiders spawn near the toilet, in this case I will show them in ()

-Number of raiders is 8= 3+2+3
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 7= 2+2+2(+1)
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 11=3+4+2(+2)
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 16=5+5+4(+2). KillAll
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 20=6+7+5(+2).
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 22=7+7+6(+2). Killall
-Come interior, wait 03 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 24=8+8+6(+2). Killall

-Come interior, wait 30 hours, come exterior Number of raiders is 27=9+9+7(+2)


Conclusions- RC1

1.There is always 3 raiders from fallout (one in each respawn point), all other- from MMM

2.There is big difference in what we will do with the raiders- kill them or leave alive, all not killed raiders will be added to the next spawn (or still be here)
3.There is big difference when we visit this place again
-If we killall raiders and visit this place again between first and second respawn time- number of raiders will be normalized
-If we killNotAll/don'tKillAtAll raiders and visit this place again between first and second respawn time- number of raiders will be increased
-If we miss respawn time and visit this place again- number of raiders will be increased in any case, not dependant from our actions.

4.There is big slowdown when respawn occur, when all raiders is killed at once and after killing (from big number of bodies, I presume).
5.No crashes so far.
6.And so far there is no advantages from returning to old spawn method IMHO- at least in the unnatural Increased Spawns and perfomance aspects.


Conclusions- RC2

1.There is always 3 raiders from fallout (one in each respawn point), all other- from MMM
2.There is no difference what we will do with the raiders- kill them or leave alive, result is the same- increased number of raiders (Hello, Jefferson Memorial exterior!)
3.There is no difference when we visit this place again, result is the same- increased number of raiders (Hello again, Jefferson Memorial exterior!)
4.There is moderate slowdown when respawn occur, when all raiders is killed at once and after killing (from big number of bodies, I presume). This is progress in comparison with RC1
4.No crashes so far.
5.And so far there is no advantages from returning to old spawn method IMHO- at least in the unnatural Increased Spawns and perfomance aspects.


Conclusions- RC3

1.There is always 3 raiders from fallout (one in each respawn point), all other- from MMM

2.There is no difference what we will do with the raiders- kill them or leave alive, result will be the same, dependant from when we visit this place again
3.There is big difference when we visit this place again
-If we visit this place again between first and second respawn time- number of raiders will be normalozed
-If we miss respawn time and visit this place again- number of raiders will be increased

4.There is little slowdown when respawn occur, when all raiders is killed at once and after killing (from big number of bodies, I presume). This is progress in comparison with RC1 and RC2
4.No crashes so far.
5.And so far there is no advantages from returning to old spawn method IMHO- at least in the unnatural Increased Spawns and perfomance aspects.


Conclusions- in comparison

1.RC3 is the best from all RC versions.
-maximum perfomance
-correct respawn in case we don't miss the next respawn time

2.Current glitches of RC3
-repeatable crash, which I can't reproduce for now. But I will try my best
-incorrect respawn in case we miss the next respawn time
-compatability issue with Point Lookout DLC at the some places (new Mirelurks)

3.There is no direct dependancy in RC3 between big number of actors and crashes. My system handle up to 30 actors, including mass actions with them.
But there can be big slowdown, of course. I mean- there is no signs of crashes in result of MMM-s errors.
4.There is no direct dependancy in RC3 between big number of mods and crashes. My system handle up to 150 mods and have not crashes during the test sessions.
But conflict between mods is possible, of course. But not with FWE. And probably- with FOOK too (at list without tougher enemies and Anchorage CP)
5.There is no direct dependancy in RC3 between crashes from one side and Corpse Decay/Corpse flyes features from another side.

What I don't test for now

1. Enemies, exept humans, including in direct battle. I often have CTD-s when fighting ghouls, dogs, rats and mutants, but I have the same problems with humans too.
-there may be incorrect battle AI, including applied by mods
-there may be incorrect dismemberment, including from body replacers
-there may be other modelling problems, including from MMM, but I don't see this ones for now.
-there may be conflict between battle and other sounds in the game from one side and your sound hardware/codecs
-there may be conflict with music replacers, which unproperly handled by your sound hardware/codecs. This one I experienced myself some time ago.
If you have constant and repeatable crash when entering interior location- there can be this one. In this case try to disable/remove your music replacers (or decrease all sound/music in the game to zero) and repeat your last action. If you succeed and the interior location have radio or Music Box, which play something- that's it.

That's all for now.


This is the bug. Will be corrected in next CP.

can you test with increased increased spawns for the same problems and post the difference? I dont know what or how you are testing, would get lost in the explanation of hows anyways. but I like the challenge but the ctd's and the lag spikes are a bit more noticable, especially the lag spikes. I also have a few small retexts for the money and the nuka colas, and am using a radio replacer.


edit:

also wmk's sounds for the silencers, of which I use alot, what are the sound settings for gun shots. as it stands these are the wave settings,

bitrate 1411
sample size 16
chennels 2 (stereo)
sample size 44khz
format pcm and is a wave file

May be, in the near future. But I don't think it will have difference. The only difference between increased and increased increased spawns is one variable, which control number of spawns. Algorithm is the same.


Well- I explain this in details, so you can easily repeat this. If you use FWE at least. But it is no need in this, here is some simple recommendations.
1. Increase respawn time. Set it to 20 days, for example. It will be much more difficult to you to see incorrect spawn in the game.
Here is the mod, which help you
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=515
2. If your system can't handle many opponents- don't use IIS. Use IS instead. In time, until bug will be corrected, you will have the same number of opponents


Small retexts don't have anything common with the crashes.
If you use GNR radioreplacer- then I use it too, and it don't cause for me any problems. But if you like to hear music during the battle- then...well... it is additional task for your processor.
About WMK- I use it too, don't have problems.
In any case, possible sound problems- it is thing which I want to check in the near future
Problem is- in each system sound may be handled differently. So- one file can crash your game, but don't crash my.
And I can only confirm in the future, if this problem exists or not.

my system can handle em normally, just a reent thing on the lag and music troubles. since the dlc of bs , and thanks for the response

Err- which music troubles? Lags?

at the change of each song, the music crackles and skips until I hit the escape key to pause the game, and the music comes back normally.

also, when too much explosions and such going off, or the shotgun blasts, the music hangs til I hit the escape to pause the game, resume play, plays music normally.

this problem persists even without the mod, the music acts up, but three dog comes in clear.... this happened last week, and was not a problem before.

I know MMM has its bugs but how many of these problems (game just completely stops for example) are a cause of MMM? I suspect this is a problem introduced with PL and 1.6 (and certainly something to do with 1.5 and BS), namely, because the game ran fine prior to the update. It was supremely stable before Broken Steel and its gone down hill since that time. I suppose I could start a new round of play to see how stable that runs.