I haven't seen Enclave soldiers a stones throw from Megaton until two days ago. I've always loaded up Broken Steel to. I assume this has something to do with FOOK2. Now that I am actually using my brain I guess I will untick all of the DLC's until a later time.

I am having some stability issues with MMM. I suspect is has something to do with the way the new spawns system operates. I have seen monsters spawning in strange places i.e. inside walls, rocks, cars etc. I am not sure I could even go about proving that this is a culprit though unless
I had another increased spawns esp that used the previous system. I also haven't seen a huge number of complaints so maybe something is wrong with my setup. I did play without crashes with just FOOK2 loaded for extended periods of time. Combined with the new MMM, I cannot play for more than 30 minutes without a crash. I am going to deactivate increased spawns and test.

I also don't think people are making a fuss. Obviously some people are experiencing this anomaly for the first time, so people assumed something was wrong. It is game breaking imo but the solution seems pretty simple.

I don't have FOOK, but meet Enclaves at the some places. For example- near farm on the way to SD Mart, or near Ducoff place. Sometimes I need to make more then one visit to find them.


From my side- I have no more then 1-2 crashes per day. It may be some hardvare problems from your side.


I have such things in the vanilla game too- long time ago, when I don't use MMM and another mods.

I guess I will continue to troubleshoot using MMM with default spawns.

Martigen said he could reduce the number of wilderness spawns but keep the interior spawns as is. This might be an interesting option, especially using FOOK2 as the enemies are more difficult. I tried making my own plugin but did not see anything that isolated the exterior from interior spawns.

Will this help to eliminate all the Super Mutant Overlords, Feral ghoul Ravagers, and Albino Radscorpions at high levels? I am a fan of the Oblivion version of the mod but have not yet tried the Fallout 3 version. I am just tired of those super powered enemies around every single corner.

Hmm... I am CTD'ing in battles with Ferral ghouls. I am currently trying to kill Roy Philips and his Ghouls and 1 in 10 times when I shoot at them, i will CTD.

Are you running the Feral Ghoul rampage esp?

I do believe so yes.

Edit: tried to disable the rampage mod, and now it CTD's while being near them. Will go back to 10P tower and wait 4 days and try again with the mod off.

Edit 2: Went back to 10p tower, waited 4 days. Saved, reloaded Fallout and now it crashes trying to load into Washington Tunnels, when I did Manage to get into the Tunnels the crashing was significantly less... but still present.

Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
CALIBR.esm
FOOK2 - Main.esm
FOOK2 - [[censored]] World And Neighbourhood Kit.esm
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
DCInteriors_Georgtown.esp
DCInteriors_SewardSq.esp
DCInteriors_Mason.esp
GalaxyNewsRadio100[M].esp
1PipboyPDA.esp
ROTS3.esp
FOOK2 - Main.esp
FOOK2 - [censored] Map Markers.esp
FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp
FOOK2 - [EVE] Energy Visuals Enhanced.esp
FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp
Fellout-Full.esp
Fellout-pipboylight.esp
Fellout-Anchorage.esp
Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp
Fellout-PointLookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Ghoul Raise.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Geckos.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Wanamingos.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Floaters.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp
DarNifiedUIF3.esp
DUIF3Extras.esp
Achievement Remover [All].esp
Achievement Remover [DIK].esp
CASM.esp

I've not seen this yet but it's possible the engine might freak out a little if a creature gets spawned in a rock. Call it a feeling, but I don't think this would cause a CTD though. Try doing a clean-savegame upgrade (as per the red text in the first post) and see if that helps with the CTDs. Note also that FOOK2 is beta and there are some CTD reports in the FOOK forums at the moment. It's possible more spawns from MMM produces more actors with equipment and a higher chance, if this is what is happening, for FOOK2 bugs to show.



Ghouls or Feral Ghouls? Ghouls (like Roy Philips) are NPCs and MMM doesn't do much with NPC Ghouls. Feral Ghouls are creatures, and of course features like diverse skins, increased spawns, and feral ghoul raising apply here.



Ok, when testing if something works by removing a mod you need to do more than just load your game without it (at least with respect to mods that alter spawns). You need to save your game while the mod is disabled, quit, and then load the game. You also need to wait 4 days (or 9 if using FWE or mods that change cell reset tme) as well.

As above, your list includes FOOK2 and there are known CTD reports at the moment. As you were fighting Roy Philips and MMM doesn't touch Roy and Ghouls in general, but they do use NPC equipment, it's possible the CTDs are from FOOK2 (or a combination of FOOK2 and MMM).

As Linkesauge has stated in the FOOK2 forums -- if you're using FOOK2, don't report bugs unless you're running only FOOK2, otherwise there is no way to know if it's the mod. I ask the same thing -- when you get a bug test only with MMM, otherwise (as here) I can't know if it's this mod or another one.

Martigen! I have terrible news for you!! It's far worse than any bug report you've yet to address, and believe me you are completely responsible for this!


-the feral ghouls that get back up are simply the most ..cool thing i have ever seen, i love it, damp dark tunnels have never been more enjoyable

-the feral ghoul rampage plugin is simply beautiful

-i love the npc behavior, from retreating, to falling down when you cripple torsos (i think, or whatever makes them stumble, bahah!)

-i found a "compatibility" pack that has the fook2, dik, etc plugins for your mod, and have been running it for 2 days with no real issues, god bless you for allowing me to use fook2 and mmm

-you are a good man, a good good man

thats all!

thanks

About those rogue Enclave Spawns, I've fixed them in my game by using fo3edit's undelete and disable on the Broken Steel esm. I don't know why broken steel deleted these spawns but these deleted ones seem to be the ones that are causing the problem. It's early days yet though as to whether doing this has caused any other problems with my game. I don't keep broken steel deactivated until ready to use because then I would have to change the Achievements esp out for the BS one, plus add the other patches. They do behave like a spoiler in fact, giving you ideas where to expect trouble later. Not having finished the main quest yet I really wanted to get rid of them.

Anyway, thankyou Martigen for the new MMM update, and making Crazy Wolfgang see that the Talon merc's were not really his friends.

/edit Undeleting and disabling the enclave using fo3edit while getting rid of the early spawning enclave soldiers did cause other problems. So I'll leave activating bs and all the other patch plugins till much later in the game.

/2nd edit Instead a patch with fallout and BS esm as masters seems to have worked. It'll take a while to see if there's any problems though but so far so good.

Sorry Mart, should have been more Clear.

Not regular Ghouls, but Ferrells. And yes, I did uncheck the .esp, save. Shutdown and Reload fallout. Wait 4 days. Save. Shutdown and Reload Game Fallout. Was still having a problem with Ferrells.

Just to ensure that it is not an issue with another mod, I did a Full reinstall of Fallout with nothing but Official DLC and MMM installed on an entirely new game and I still experienced a CTD while fighting Ferrell ghouls in Washington Tunnel.

It's not specifically repeatable to "One place" in the Washington Tunnels, or one type of Ferrell... it will happen seemingly spontaneously down there.

Load Order was as follows:

Fallout3.esm
Anchorage.esm
ThePitt.esm
BrokenSteel.esm
PointLookout.esm
Zeta.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Feral Ghoul Rampage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Ghoul Raise.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Geckos.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Wanamingos.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - No Floaters.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
CASM.esp

Total active plugins: 24
Total plugins: 28

That's about as pure as you are going to get out of me. I refuse to play without CASM.

Now it could simply be a Fallout 3 Patch 1.7 issue, I am running Windows 7 and Fallout 3 is not at its most stable. But it would seem odd that it only happen with some form of consistency when fighting Ferrell Ghouls.

So take it or leave it, its a bug report and I hope the 6 or so hours spent testing and verifying and reinstalling Fallout will at least be partially useful. With that being said, I don't think I'm cut out for this bug testing business, so I'm going to go reinstall the mods that are allegedly compatible and stable with FOOK2 and go back to trying to get to Point Lookout for the first time since buying the damn DLC in June.

Thanks again for the great mod Mart and all your hard work on Fallout and Oblivion.

Cheers.

2 Mortis
I have much longer load list and have only one-two crashes in a day
From your mods I don't have only this

DCInteriors_Georgtown.esp
DCInteriors_SewardSq.esp
DCInteriors_Mason.esp
1PipboyPDA.esp
ROTS3.esp
FOOK2

There are some issues with UF3P-BS CP. It give many crashes to the game, especially in Rivet City area. Performing masterupdate can eliminate this issue practically fully. But masterupdate can create troubles in the some Broken Steel related interior areas, for example- Presidential metro

And also. If you use vista- you can try to launch the game in the compatability mode with XP. This help me to avoid crashes in the VATS

You can see my load order here
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1035598&view=findpost&p=15016430

Oh- and about CASM. This is great and useful mod. But if you periodically have undying enemies and traps, which you can't disable, try to not use quick load feature. Better load your game from the menu

Great, thanks this I can use. I'll check out the tunnels. Just to confirm as well (sorry but need to check) this is with 4.1 and not 4.0? One cause of CTD applying to Fearlessness that some ghouls have was fixed in 4.1.


No worries.

Hey Mart,

How can I make an MMMF4 plugin for Foes reworked? Do you have a post anywhere with a procedure I could follow? Or is there more to it to where someone who really understands MMMF4 should be the one to do it?

Here's an updated version based on the last uploaded version of MMM - Foes Reworked NG:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~amills/MMMF3-FRNG.zip

There weren't many changes to make.

Thanks for the tip about CASM. I will start hard saving and loading from the menu. I will also disable UF3P BOS patch and see if that helps with anything.




Yes, MMM 4.1. And don't worry, I completely understand the need to ensure the reliability of a bug report as a problem with the mod and not a conflict or being caused by another, especially with a game as temperamental as Fallout. I can't even begin to wonder how much time Fallout modders have wasted chasing after phantom bugs reported in their modules that were actually the fault of official patches and DLC.

See it yourself- in my case quick save don't make anything wrong, only quick load do

PS Today I was able to play without crashes at all. After my last system reinstalling I forget about my multicore problem.
I start the game with the
start/affinity 3 FOMM.exe
command, and it make the deal

hey Mart, i experienced a few crashes in certain tunnels while running fook, increased increased, feral rampage all together, i thought it was only the ghouls at first

its almost impossible to replicate this error, at first i thought it could be the loot in bodies, but after looking closely at your esps for compatibility, its not that at all, and in fact your plugins are very well compiled to match fook2

eventually i started crashing with super mutants, raiders, pretty much a lot of intense situations...then i popped open your esp and saw the "inumplayercombatatonce", and excess body removals etc...when i set them to default, the crashing completely Stopped, however, i realize why you increased it, which is the default (20) makes half the npcs on the screen into "idle zombies", so i set it to 30, and so far i've only crashed once in about 4 hours, "stress testing", game play is slightly affected but honestly its a really enjoyable experience

hey i thought id th row this out there, i could be completely wrong, lucky, ignorant or all 3 put together, but i figure what if you tinker with those settings maybe lowering the setting for fook+mmm users might just do the trick

hope this helps, hope i didnt jump the gun posting this

thanks again for your mod dude

Great, thanks, got it!

I've noticed crashiness with feral ghouls lately too. I didn't make a connection with ghoulies until it was mentioned here, but the two I can recall were in PL and were both against ghoulies. One was at the Ofie Clan Plot, which seems to be a ghoul spawn spot as I remember fighting ghouls at that spot in a previous playthru.

well, i've been playing the hell out of this current mmm/fook setup as properly as can be..installed/run
fook is more intrusive by nature, as it affects direct areas of interaction in the main story/campaign, including "special" quest related objects, npcs, etc

mmm has always been more of a subtle..seamless integration into the given environment by beth engine, and of course improving npc behavior with tasteful twists, stumbling, looting, prioritizin targets, factions. etc, bringing it all to life

off topic back on the ball

the point is, i cant pinpoint exactly -what- causes these sometimes frequent crashes but ive noticed the following usually happens before the crash starts to creep its head

- whenever npc triggers specific behavior such as - crippled limbs, switching WEAPON TYPE from ranged to melee at close distance, retreating - it -feels- as if the engine is strugglining between both mmm and fook esps, maybe its a faction behavior, or unique packages for npc types perhaps too much bouncing of the variables upon startup causing risk for improper lists due to overwhelming amount of instructions (20+ plugins on top of eachother etc)?

-npc activates special behavior/power/feature, or at least that appears to be it with the feral ghouls, i dont think its resurrection, i think it may be something like the glowing one self destructing

-large numbers of npcs are alerted to player presence during STEALTH, ive crashed a few times when over 10-15 ghouls or raiders detect me and the *danger* indicator appears

-at times, a large portion of npcs seems to carry primary weapon off-hand going into the MELEE/FIST idle+walk animations, maybe this is in an "AI PACKAGE" or something, they wont fire their weapon, and simply stand in melee pose, or run around/take cover since they cant fire their weapon, ive crashed occassionally when 2 or 3 npcs are in the middle of a huge fire fight stuck in "melee"

-loot can seem like overkill (with both mods running at once), 2 types of grenades, 2 types of ammo per-npc, i have a feeling this can consume resources otherwise dedicated to overall stability by less strain of the engine in calculating so many different item types etc, maybe "trim" down loots to be more mainstream by having items both mods recognize avoiding unnecessary memory consumption

-lack of ammo can be a problem at times, if you're extremely careful with your shots, and constantly harrass merchants for a few hundred rounds, you're usually okay, but deep runs can last a while and eventually you run out, current loot should be doubled in my opinion so its 16 rounds instead of 8 for example, raising the minimum and leaving the "big loot" percentages the way they are

-fook2 adds a considerable amount of custom content" from weapons, to armor/clothing/weapon/clutter textures, models, etc. on mid to mid-high computers, this will most likely heavy loads/chokage, maybe freezing or not being able to save/quick load, crashing on cell transition etc when running in FULL quality, if you're running the "high res" world textures, dont even think about using the 4096x4096 package with both of these

just throwing thoughts out there

ultimately mart in my opinion, for a smooth mostly issue free experience, the fook mod is gonna have to trim down on content/resource usage quite a bit, stuff like...all the extra guns and ammo types, instead of 20 ammo types, more like 8-10, instead of 150 weapons, only 50. etc etc. and that is entirely Not up to you my friend heh

the npcs have to have a better understanding between each other as far as behaviors or factions/dispositions, loadouts

this combination feels so..overwhelmingly full of potential, if..but thats another story, as far as i see it, you've done your part my friend, and done it well, anything that comes from these two mods combined is a blessing

in case i vanish for 6 or more months at a time as i always, i just want you to know i respect ya buddy, and am grateful you share your stuff with us all, if i find a reason to bathe this thread in my commentary again before the weekend is up ill make sure to post anything regarding fook+mmm

as far as MMM itself goes...its perfect
im gonna play some more i just spent 20 minutes writing this

leave me alone

I just wanted to know if there was an update to the Enclave Purifier Spawns after main quest ends. Its just annoying to have to clear them out (Im not even certain if they'll respawn after).

I particularly like the inclusion of non hostile creatures, such as the wasteland scorpion, corpse flies and little geckos. I would like to suggest, if possible, removing such non-threatening creatures from the "radar". They serve very well as "decoration" and have no need to be there. I'd love to see more such creatures, though I understand that the wasteland is essentially, well, a wasteland.

Squirrels perhaps - if they could climb trees that would be particularly decorative and atmospheric.

*post edited for incorrect advice, apologies*

hi,
there's a minor conflict between MMM-broken steel patch and the UFOP-broken steel patch, both add a script to the ghoul reaver (creature DLC03CrFeralGhoul4A). B)