Martigen, would it be possible for you to make a .esp for those who have all the DLCs (at least the first four) to put DLC weapons in regular loot lists (Talon Company having Infiltrators/T-B Laser Rifles, Raiders with Axes, Lever Action Rifles and Double Barrel Shotguns, High-Level Enclave with the Gauss Rifle, High-Level Raiders and Talon Company with the Wasteland Version of Pre-War Weapons from Anchorage, etc)

I think that would be really awesome.

that would be a job for a different mod altogether wouldn't you think?

Damn, a CTD in the rail yards just west of Jury Street already. Probably not a MMM issue, but I thought I would note it as it happened pretty quickly. Did the install, slept for 4 days and jumped to Jury Street to head for Evergreen Mills and boom just past the boxcars.

Nope, not MMM related.

Might be coincidential, but since installing 4.2 I get a lot of CTDs, especially when fast-travelling.
FO3 is usually pretty stable for me so I guess it might have to do with 4.2?

Tried to do a clean save, too, but didn't help.
Guess I'll try to go back to 4.1 for now to see if it helps.

Edit: Completely removed MMM and CTDs are gone, will now reinstall 4.1.

As for the matriarch horns... if the cap/weight ratio isn't over 15 or 20, I generally won't loot it. And on weaker characters at higher levels, a ratio of 20-30 is what I'm looking for. Even some of the consumable have a not-so-good ratio, which makes me leave them on the body. Generally speaking, by the time I'm killing Deathclaws and Matriarchs regularly, only the hand is worth carting away (25 caps, 1 lb).

(At low levels, I'll loot bent tin cans...)

Just a thought, but there could be an optional esp that adds some of the unique creatures from the dlcs to the wasteland?
Some examples

OA DLC: Random rare spawns of Chinese commandos. It could use the dlc speech assets, devil's tongue type troopers, some rare Chinese snipers with stealth suites. It would make sense that some of the Chinese are still bent on continuing the war.

Pitt DLC: Troggs have now infiltrated the capital wasteland! It'd be neat to see yao gui fighting a pack of troggs. Or a group of trogs eating some super mutants. Pitt raiders, they have decided to do some raiding in the wasteland! Or slaves that have escaped the pitt and fled to the wasteland. They could use those steel saws

Zeta DLC: Aliens are now spawning in the wasteland! Now enclave are not the only high level nasty critters to beware.

All CTD's are not Specific Mod related -> mods like MMM and my own Creature Compendium add tons of raw assets that all get loaded and start to stress your computer if you do not refrain from just installing installing installing ........ every single mod in existance mods like this and Fook or any mod that adds tons of assets, they are going to start to stress your system until your computer just can not take it any longer and you get constant CTD's -> check your system temps and make sure nothing is overheating especially your video card in relation to overloading your Video Ram with to many HD textures.

People seem to think that thier computer is a black hole of resources and they can just keep feeding it and feeding it -> well eventually your going to hit the event horizon....

Not saying its not 4.2 just saying make sure its not everything combined first by loading only MMM and testing with a clean save game, I can not even count the number of times my mods were blamed for CTD's when in truth it was the users fault that was causing the instability.

I don't think it'd be compatible if it wasn't based somewhat on MMM, since it edits leveled lists.

Don't know, I don't have that many mods installed and MMM is by far the biggest. And I'm not complaining, but so far 4.1 seems to run more stable for me.
As for overheating, I'm quite sure I'm not that close to the limit yet.
But I guess I'll try again tomorow.

MMM doesn't touch leveled items¹ though, so an equipment overhaul mod is unaffected.




¹ Except creature loot.

Its not an issue with the number of mods loaded its an issue with the number of assets loaded -> most mods will have a very small effect as far as system overload is concerned (because most mods do not add alot of new content they just alter whats there already) where people need to be wary of thier system stability is when they are adding mod that include an abundance of assets -> because these assets can and WILL cause extra processing strain on every aspect of your system, but where you will start to see more and more problems are with Creature mods where we are spawning 15+ creatures in any given area -> they all look different (15 HD Textures -> different 15 Meshes -> 15 different mob's -> you start to get away from the games natural ability to instance clones of like enemies for diversity and cause instability in return -> its unavoidable all that can be done is for each individual user to moniter thier system and make sure it can handle the stress.

My only issue is ammo. Ive been itching to run increased increased spawns, or up the difficulty higher but when I do I find that I burn thru ammo at too high of a rate to enjoy the game.

Ive tried ammo mods that increase the amount of ammo dropped on enemies, but 40-100 rounds per enemy isnt balanced either.


Its no fun going from vendor to vendor and doing the waiting game to stock on up ammo every time I play.


Anyway you could add an MMM Increased Ammo module, that double the ammo dropped off enemies and available at vendors and in ammo boxes?



Any plans to add an optional ESP that allows DLC monsters to spawn in the wasteland as well?

I avoid editing loot lists to ensure MMM is compatible with mods that do -- this way you can use the loot mod of your choosing. The exception is new loot MMM adds for certain creatures, but here these are new lists not found in vanilla or other mods.



Is it repeatable? If there's an issue with 4.2 I'd certainly like to know and track it down, especially if you did a clean save. Please send me the savegame and instructions on how you trigger it.

Also, before I forget, anyone using a merged patch must re-make it any time you add/remove/change mods or you will get problems (and ideally you don't need a merged patch, unles you're using WMK and then only for mods that affect it).



Yep, all good ideas. Was thinking about this but it's somewhere down further on the todo list.



Very true, though in this case if someone gets a crash that disappears when reverting to 4.1 (properly resting and letting cells reset between swapping versions) there could be something in 4.2 causing it. Which means tracking obscure bugs again...

I run Increased Spawns... and ammo is only an issue at the start. Once I uncover Tenpenney Tower, Rivet City and Underworld - it's not hard to get head on ammo just from those vendors. Toss in investing in the weapons caravan and I'm rolling in ammo by level 15 (I'm running a -50% XP modifier at the moment). I'm carrying around 900 shotgun rounds, 2000 10mm (my backup weapon is a 10mm SMG that I never use), 2500 5.56mm, and a few hundred rounds of .32 for a rifle.

But until I got past Moria and got a 2nd and 3rd ammo source, things were a bit scarce up until level 5-7. At low levels, I have to rely on VATS a lot and can't just spray ammo. I have to make every shot count.

Now for my 2cp. I'm not sure that increased ammo spawn fits with MMM. I think that's better handled by other mods such as:

Container Replenishment
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8682

Selected Containers Respawn
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2519

...

As for critters from the expansions showing up in the wastelands.

Pitt Troggs - would make sense, if they're limited to being around up near the train tunnel. I'm not sure I want to see them in downtown DC.

Aliens - eh... I'm not a big fan of MZ.

OpAnch - wasn't that war like 200 years ago? I'd rather see the Chinese ghouls from vanilla show up in other places (the ones from ).

Point Lookout - I can't see how the hillbillies would get to Wash DC, unless they walk the entire way. And I'm not sure I want more bullet sponges in the wastes.

Other than the initial CTD that I experienced the mod is running fine for me. This almost seems like a kinder and gentler MMM. While I still see spawns, they seem to want to duke it out amongst themselves with the winner having the joy of attacking me.

It started when I wanted to leave Rivet City, everytime I tried it would CTD. I then thougth that maybe RC isn't the best place to upgrade MMM so I deactivated it, also deactivated saving upon travel and went to Grayditch where I rested 4 days in one of the empty houses to make a clean save. I then reenabled MMM, rested again and fasttraveled (Rockbreakers last Gas). I encountered about 3 Muties but after a minute or two it CTDed again.
So I reloaded in Grayditch (right before traveling to RLG) but it would again start crashing every time I tried to fast travel.
I do not use increased spawns, so I don't think I'm stressing my pc too much with 30 creatures running around (usually its more like 3-5).

That was when I decided to remove MMM 4.2, do a clean save again (problems seemed to vanish) and then reinstall 4.1.
I got CTDs befor 4.2, too, but they were much less common.

I'll try to reinstall 4.2 tonight after work and, should the problems return, also try to play with MMM only on a clean save.

P.S.: Is 4.2 update only or can it be installed as a stand-alone? I noticed that the sound-folder from 4.1 is missing.
I think I also read in an older thread that the respawn time can be set via an console command. I thought it would be "setgs ihourstorespawncell x" but this doesn't seem to work, I still need to rest 4 days.

4.2 need to be installed above 4.1, if you do not make it- this is possible reason for crashes.
And are you sure, you have CTD-s after fast travel itself? May be after autosave?

A good place for Martigan to start would be with SM's as both of those locations are crawling with them, and they are a creature altered by the 4.2 patch.

Hi- sorry I miss new version.
My first attempt to run MMM was unsuccessful, but problem was from my side- I forget to install new resources above from 4.1
After I make it- all just fine for now.
I make trip from Minefield up to crash site, meet such creatures as Deathclaws, molerats, dogs and raiders without issues. Now I play mothership Zeta- no crashes so far.

Ok, I'll install it again tonight, maybe I've been to stupid again and screwed up during install.
Now that I think about it, it's possible I disabled it in FOMM before installing the new one, could that remove the old files?

The autosave that is being done when fast traveling seemingly had been completed ok, I could reload that.
It crashed after the loading screen, right before I would arrive at the new location.

New files will replace old ones. But it is better to delete old files before reinstall. If you forget about some mods, which dependent from MMM, such mods during game start will load MMM automatically and you will don't know about it. In this case upgrade procedure will be performed incorrectly.

As I remember, game make autosave after fast travel, try to disable autosave and see if it make difference.


In Zeta DLC I already meet some of the supermutants, but I play with FWE and Foes Reworked, so my example not appropriate, it seems.

PS Seems to me- one of the Ghouls in Zeta broken

Ok, now I have some strangeness with the Beta. I have no Floaters checked, but I have floaters at GNR. Maybe they replaced the extra Behemoth that you got rid of.

[EDIT] I am picking up all of the creatures that I have selected NOT to spawn. However, I have selected Increased Spawns and Reduced Wasteland Spawns; is this self defeating?

Good news everyone!

4.2 seems to work now. First I deinstalled MMM, reinstalled 4.1 and then 4.2 but did not activate it and made a clean save at Grayditch first.
Then I waited again for 4 days with 4.2 activated and now it seems to be working.
I just played 2 hours straight without a single CTD when fast traveling or encountering Muties (nice work on the textures btw.)

Hope it stays that way.

I guess I did something wrong yesterday when installing it, or maybe a file got corrupted.

I'd like to find out what benefits changing the game setting fCombatThreatRatioUpdateTime has with MMM. I feel it makes the npc's behave a little erratically, as in going from an alert state back to normal too quickly. I'm guessing it shortens the time between carrying out detection routines. I don't want to change it back though without knowing whether or not it's going to affect the behaviour of creatures in MMM too much.

Yes... the RC 4.2 is an update to be applied on top of RC 4.1. If you removed RC 4.1 via FOMM and then added the update, you have an incomplete mod.



I've checked this again and this should be possible, at least from the code. The Floaters are even in a block which, if the Floaters global isn't set, nothing at all can happen. No Floaters does this. The only way I can see Floaters appearing in your game is:

* You're using an older version of MMM before RC 4.1 (lets scratch that one)
* You're using an old merged patch that's retaining old information
* The floaters were spawned in your game before adding No Floaters, and you just haven't killed them yet.

See if the latter two are true -- remake your merged patch if you use one, or don't use it at all. Also, out of curiosity, before you do the above can you exit the cell, rest 4 days (or more if using FWE etc) to let cells reset, and re-enter it. Are the Floaters still there? I have one other theory that's dependent on the engine...



Good to hear



I'm not sure it has much to do with going to alert and back, but I'd be interested in your testing if you find otherwise.

The setting is tweaked to ensure creatures that may want to flee from a fight have the opportunity to do so, and ties in with MMM's confidence settings to create better behavioural AI. The fleeing code in Fallout 3 works on a system the balances various variables about the actor and its combatant, including health. Usually when its health is low and significantly lower than its opponent, an actor will flee. The default value for updating the 'threat ratio' between it and the combatant, aka 'check if it's time to flee', is 7.5 seconds.

By definition large foes will have more health when they reach that 'dangerous' level in terms of their percentage health, and so you possibly won't be able to kill them quickly and they will have a chance to flee. However the same is not true for weak creatures -- if you're fighting a Molerat and its health drops to a level where it wants to flee, you'll more than likely kill it in the next 7.5 seconds before it can evaluate and decide it's time to run. Hence MMM tweaks this to 5 seconds to give more lower-end creatures -- which also by definition should be the ones more likely to flee -- a chance to do so before you drop their health to 0.