Uh...why?

You sure are being rather presumptuous in this thread. I never implied that anyone who wasn't a martial artist had to use martial arts animations when they went hand to hand...why did you come to that conclusion? It would be stupid to have a Nord do martial arts in a tavern because you were fighting hand to hand.

It's not hard to just have regular hand to hand for regular characters, that's already in the game. The only thing they would have to do is develop a martial arts animation set.

Not sure why you're acting like they can't do that.

I′d like to add it′s not uncommon for monks to be really really strong in fantasy.

Take for example Grandmaster Kane in D&D. He was strong enough to beat two dragons into submission and dealt with one of the strongest assassin on Mundus, Artemis Entreri without touching him, and this assassin goes on par with multiple Drow fighters of Menzoberranzan and a Drow who took down a Balor solo.

Monks can be godlike in power in fantasy.

"Not sure why you're acting like they can't do that." can apply to just about every Bethesda game

It would be extremely easy to do via perks granting new moves and branching strength vs agility paths but I dont see it happening. Maybe when Obsidian makes a Skyrim: New Vegas.

For the record I dont really care either way because I never play unarmed characters.

That is exactly who I was thinking of when making this thread. Huge fan of RA Salvatore, as evidenced by the avatar :mohawk:

lol neither do I, that's why I started this thread, because I'd like to play an unarmed character, but not the way I'd have to with the current system in place.

Disarming and using the opponents weapon against them in one move if timed correctly would be the only way to block.. or just being fast and getting out of the way. Gauntlets could provide a chance to block melee but other then that it would have to be a whole lot of wrist grabbing and enemy weapon manipulation. :poke:

I like R. A. Salvatore too, but I do think he may have gone a little overboard with Grandmaster Kane, sure powerful people are nice but from what I′ve read there is not even a measurement to his power, Artemis gets his dagger on him but you find out later that Kane allowed it to happen and could have stopped him at any time, and Charon′s Claw supposedly presented him with 0 challenge mentally speaking. It′s almost like if he could wipe out the entire Underdark alone, taking down the entirety of Menzoberranzan and taking out all the illiths without failing. I′d like to see monks in TES strong enough to take on a dragon but he′s just... over the top...

Jarlaxle on the cover of "Servant of the Shard" in "The Sellswords" series, funnily enough the full cover just happens to have a dragon on it too just the creatures we are discussing monks fighting against.

true being unarmed is quite dull in the past games

If I could pull of some awesome Bruce Lee style moves, i would use H2H a lot more often. They should also make it so at least the khajiits claw instead of punch. They're big bipedal cats, so they should claw.

Well instead of blocking you would just dodge, duck, roll, or flip out of the way.

Or like I mentioned, you could choose to play a monk who used a bowstaff (enchanted obviously, because that would be kind of ridiculous to try to block an axe chop with a regular wooden bowstaff).

Haha yeah he was way too powerful in that book. But then again, Grandmaster Kane isn't one of Salvatore's characters, so maybe he just didn't know how to write him and instead overpowered him so as not to go the opposite way and make him appear too weak.

I don't remember Kane allowing Entreri to get his dagger on him, I'll have to go back and read it again some day. I just remember once Entreri gets his dagger in him, Kane is paralyzed and terrified that the dagger can pull the lifeforce out of him.

I really want martial arts to accompany marksman and stealth well. Therefore we can still at least be decent in close-quarters combat without having to lug a sword around along with our bow/arrows.

I would love to see an improved hand to hand system - and I don't see why enchanted gauntlets can't be implemented to deal with big beasts like dragons and mammoths.

Well, true that.
But I was more thinking about that style and only update it.
That style looks rally good and can be used for martial arts monk while also be used for some brawler.
It's most neutral in my opinion.
But hey, that's just me.



LoL
That would be all funny if I was not a martial artist myself and if I didn't knew some people who are strong as titans (my grandfather).
Dude, I personally was fighting several armed people at the time and none of them would even touch me while I would beat the crap out of them.
Also, there was once an accident where I got stabbed by a knife in my lung (was still a newbie at martial arts) and was bleeding like crazy.
Doctors couldn't believe that I've lost that much blood and even didn't feel dizzy, but have beaten crap out of the guy and sat down normally after that and waited for the hospital to get me.
My grandfather, on the other hand, is an animal.
Dude, if you ever saw what he can do with his physical strength, you wouldn't believe it.
He could carry 100kg bags of concrete in each hand as if they were bags of flour.
Not to mention that his left hand got crushed by a truck and he still could preform all the physical labor without any problem.
Trust me, people like you are actually ignorant and don't know true limits of human bodies.
Humans are more capable to do than one may think.

Also, the reason why spear/sword/axe was choice as weapon trough all human history is because way of the fist was much harder and that's that.

I really, really hope a monk type will be a viable option again. Either by introducing fist weapons, re-introducing unarmored (via perks?) or more martial art moves - I will take anything.

Wow...

:laugh: lmfao!! im sorry but while reading that story i was compelled to think bs but i dont know it may be true.

Hand to hand should stay.
The animations look way better now.One of the finishing moves shows the PC grabbing someone then thrusting a dagger in him.
Hand to hand is more than just punching.
You are more more agile and dexterous with your hands and body alone.
Kicks,punches,grabs,throws,disarming,counters,using the foes force against them.
Hand to hand combined with stealth,dragon shouts,magic,would be awesome.
Monks are masters of the body and mind and know how to use various weapons.
They know how to use an enemies weapon against them,they are skill in staff combat/polearm combat.
Bethesda has worked alot on close combat,making it more intense...more staggering,knocking back,grabbing etc.
There could also be hand to hand weapons...claws etc....add poison to that= dead mammoth...job done.
A skilled monk could easily take down a knight,hit his weak points,like joints etc,a kick will unbalance a knight,armour doesn't stop you from staggering.
A monk has his fingers free to grab with ease,turning a knights shield etc against him.The fact that you can use your fingers and hands,makes you extemely dexterous.
I really hope hand to hand stays...it's great fun and very effective....it just needs to be better animated in skyrim.

I would very much enjoy a good martial arts system. I've always wanted to create an assassin/rogue who could snap peoples' necks from behind. A monk would be cool, but I'd much rather play a Martial Arts Master Assassin who knows how to break every bone in the human body. :woot:

It'd be great. Except that there'd be no way I could master all of the button combinations to make those options work! :nope:

I always liked the over-powered AD&D 2nd ed. Dragon Magazine monk.

Would rock i thought the same thing when i played through oblivion, but this would have to involve a simple dodging move (you're not gonna block a sword till you have some proper heavy armor for your hands) and hand to hand combat being enhanced by what gauntlets/gloves you're wearing, and hand to hand weapons like knuckle dusters... this is a lot of work, i doubt this will be in the game but it would rock so much.

I love mastering button combinations like in tekken and soul calibur but we're talking about a PC game here. the only combinations we've got here is W-A-S-D+MousClicks+Shift+Space+E(jump)+Crouch+Middle Mouse button. Thats plenty right? but couldn't get very complicated.

On the topic of Material arts beating armed combat. That would explain why through history all wars have been dominated by weapons as fighting without them is obviously too powerfull, so to be fair evryone decided to just go with using weapons. Sure there's probably plenty of people thats insanely skilled with marshal arts, just look at that kids grandpa, sure they could beat someone using a sword. But then, the material artist would have to be quite alot more skilled in fighting then the swordsman.

On materal arts in skyrim, I don't know. Think its more plausable that we'll simply get something like previous games hand to hand, probably improved and maybe including some grabs. Kicks, I don't see that really, unless you equip your foot in your left hand. And like the point, if I want to be a drunnk nord figher, but all the fight moves i can use are a bit kungfu over the top parrying moves and neck breaking, instead of Punches. And can't see it as a good perk idea to seperate fighting styles. "this perk replaces all your standard fighting animations and tactics with no possibility of changing back" They would have to be either VERY similar or just add on to the standard hand to hand system. I can more see it like a perk unlocking a grab of some sort that you activate by pressing down and holding both triggers. Evasive rolls or similar things could also be put in, but the basic fighting mechanic probably wont change from punch, punch, punch.....

Killing dragons using your bare hands? I don't see that beeing any problem, you could alway make up your own reason for why. If you really think it shouldn't be possible, then don't. Nothing forcing you. If you face a dragon and think you shouldn't be able to beat it then just run. If you don't intend to play as a hand to hand and think hand to hand shouldn't be able to kill a dragon. Then it doesn't really matter for you does it? Not like you will constantly be bothered by all those NPC's slaying dragons with their hands leaving no one to you.

Bottom line, hope there will be some special moves for hand to hand like grabing, dodging, disarming and such. But kicks and other similar things really is pushing it if you ask me.

Just to refresh you, in the book Artemis gets his dagger in and Kane does feel horrified at how vile the dagger is, but after they come to an agreement Artemis feels Kane′s ability lifted off himself, but Artemis does not even have time to think about releasing Kane before Kane did it himself, basically Kane could have done that at any given moment as he pleased.

I wonder if it would be nice for hand to hand if it also increased your stats while you have "only" hands up, (so you don′t get hand to hand up just to get the stats + use a weapon) that way you would imitate a battle hardened martial artist who has had to work his body further to be able to use hand to hand with any effect.

I punch a dragon square in the face and there is a violent cracking sound as the screen shakes violently during the impact and the shock wave is heard all across Skyrim. I want that.