I'm with ya...one sec

Okay. Issue #1 ... My OOO installation was not done through OBMM. It was originally done manually by extracting archives. The two patches, 1.32 and 1.33, however, were done in OBMM and I can deactivate those.


Honest question: Would it be better for me to just uninstall Oblivion, delete my Data directory, and start completely fresh? I don't really mind doing it if it would make things easier.

I have all my mod archives, the patch and so forth in a folder.

You need to uinstall the old version of MMM before installing the New Version. Has MMM 3.7 comes in BSA which contains all the updated meshes and textures and sounds.

There are omod 3.0 Version of MMM, and 3.5.5 Version can be used to uinstall Older Version of MMM has well. Else BAIN can do the job with a little work..

It is required that you uinstall all older versions before installing MMM 3.7b3 and MMM.bsa once again.

And OOO 1.34 Patch for Full MMMForOOO/FCOM Compatiblity..

http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/installation/mods/bain-installation --See the link under "Other Pages" for info on packages
>> I will walk you through the installation for this setup, but you can use that as a reference as you install more mods.

Okay, I'm pretty sure it would be best if I just reinstall the game, wipe out my data directory and start fresh here.

Why do I need BAIN? What is it?

BAIN is Bash's installer. You do not need BAIN, but it has certain features over OBMM that I would not give up. I just suggested it since you were installing Wrye Bash and updating the two biggest mods in your load order. I think you will find the interface intuitive and helpful once you get used to it. The biggest pluses over OBMM, is that you can easily tell which version of data files are loaded last, and it has prioritized installation. Prioritized installation is very helpful to users of multiple cosmetic mods and users of multiple overhauls because those types of mods tend to have overlapping data files, where which one's files are actually installed can make a big difference. I think installing these mods with BAIN is simpler, but I will leave that up to you.

Edit: typo

Ah, I see. I'm doing okay with Wrye and OBMM for now. Loading order is something I'll have to worry about later on.

For now, I'm going to spend a few minutes getting a completely fresh install going, so I can start from the top, in an order something like this (I like to keep things organized ):

• -->Official patch
  
• OBMM/Wrye
  
• OOO
  
• MMM
  
• Other mods

BTW for reference I'm running Windows 7 without any DLC or SI.

OOO 1.33 comes with an OMOD script, so that should be straight forward. Do not use the version of Harvest [Flora] that comes with OOO? Download it separately if you want it. I do recommend it. There is also a later version of Living Economy available than the one bundled with OOO, but you can use the v3.6 version in OOO just as well. I used the latest version 3.7 until I recently switched to Enhanced Economy, more current alternative. There is an MMM 3.7 OMOD script as well. If it is not bundled with the OMO--You can check by right-click on the OMOD and choosing "view script"--there should be one on TESNexus somewhere. I cannot remember whether or not the OOO 1.34b5 patch comes with and OMOD script. There are not too many optional plugins to choose from. The only one I can remember is OOO-Water Weeds, so you would be fine blindly activating it. To delete an unwanted plugins installed with it, right-click on the plugin in the left frame, choose "unlink," and then you can deleted it without issue from OBMM.

Edit: Install the Unofficial Oblivion Patch first!! Top it with the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710 You will then need the stand alone http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28537 (and probably want the optional combat settings as well.) It is also easier to install and uninstall with BAIN those mods that have multiple plugins and no script. It is easier to correct installation mistakes.

A BSA is an archive format, like 7zip. When you installed OBMM it became associated with the .BSA format. OBMM contains a utility that allows you browse, extract and create BSAs. To install the BSA, create an OMOD such as MMM 37 BSA, import the BSA (as a file not an archive) create the OMOD and activate it.

Before you create the OMOD you need to rename the BSA!! Choose a plugin in your load order that does not have spaces in the name (and that you are unlikely to remove) and rename the MMM BSA, "%PluginWithoutSpaces% - MMM.bsa" (the name without the .esp part.) The plugin must be an ESP and not an ESM.

I'm sorry but this is just out of my league. I have little or no understanding of all these various programs and extensions.

I started with a fresh install of Oblivion, followed MMM's help file to the letter, and now the game won't even start. The load order should be correct and everything. :gun:

Go with the BAIN installation. It is the most straight forward. Uninstall whatever you have installed with OBMM, and let's try that instead. You have already installed Wrye Bash, right?

You gotta simplify here...I'm a toddler at this.

Is there a step by step way I can do this from a fresh install?

Assuming I have Oblivion with the official patch, and OBMM, Wrye Bash installed, and haven't done anything else.

What are the next steps?

Before we get started, are you using version 279 of Wrye Bash, and have you alread initialized BAIN by clicking on the Installers" tab? If you have, locate the mods folder BAIN has installed "Oblivion\Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers." That is where you need to drop the archives of the mods you want to install.

Continuing...What mods are the main mods you trying to install? I can walk you through their installation, and installing anything else should be fairly simple (if the mods are http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/utilities/wrye-bash/bain.) If you do not happen to have the archives for these mods still lying around, you can use OBMM's convert to archive function (right-click on an OMOD in OBMM) and put them in the Bash Installers folder. You do not have to bother with exporting the OMOD conversion data.

I find very useful reading this thread
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1079933-50-steps-to-ctd-almost-free-fcom-game/
In particular note this recomendation:

View PostShikishima, on Feb 21 2010, 03:09 PM, said:
For compatibility reasons with the MMM BSA it's now important in which order some mods are installed:
Recommended order by Shikishima and Corepc:

Unofficial Oblivion Patch
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch(if applicable)
DLC's + Patches(if applicable)
Francesco's 4.5
OOO version 1.33 full patched to OOO 1.34 beta5
Oblivion WarCry patched to 1.085b
Bob's Armory 1.1
Armamentarium and Armamentarium Artifacts(optional)
Martigen's Monster Mod 3.7b3
COBL(optional)
COBL Races(optional)
FCOM 9.9 beta + supported add-ons(add-ons optional)
Body Replacement mods (Roberts, Exnem. EVE etc)(optional)
Texture replacers(optional)

To complete FCOM, install the UFCOM files, overwriting where prompted.

Please note that this is recommended INSTALLATION order and not loading order.

This is not an FCOM installation. We are not getting nearly that complex. That is an excellent guide, but we are dealing with the (installation) basics here. That is a "must read" for more comfortable mod users, however.

Yes, you are right as this is not a FCOM installation.
The game experience, in my opinion, is much better with FCOM.
I must say that I had more problem in installing MMM + OOO than installing FCOM.
There are a lot of thread you can use for FCOM and wonderful utilities like the OMOD installers.

Installing MMM+OOO is simpler, but less people use that configuration, hence less support. I think the pages of installation ReadMes and FAQs should be enough to intimidate a person uncomfortable with mods installation. Let's not go there. I have helped a few users new to mods install FCOM, and it is not the easiest task.

Edit: Also, OMOD installers are just scripts. Many mods have them. MMM directly supports MMM+OOO, so an extra combined script is not really necessary. Another example of why installing FCOM is more complicated.

All I'm trying to do is to get OOO and MMM to work together with severely basic understanding of modding software. I don't know what FCOM is, but if it's easier, I'm all about it.

I didn't know what Wrye Bash or OBMM were until today. There are many different versions of these mods out there: upgrades, degrades, OMODs, executables, etc... :banghead:

So, here's the play:

• I have a fresh installation of Oblivion without any mods. I don't have Shivering Isles. Oblivion is officially patched.
  
• I have OBMM and Wrye Bash installed.

• :trophy: I have the UOP file: UnofficialOblivionPatchv3.2.0.omod.

I have the following files relating to MMM:

• :trophy: MMM373BSA
  
• :trophy: MMM_37b3_Public_Release-17784

I have the following files relating to OOO:

Old OOO executable and its patches...

• :trophy: OOO_1.3.exe
  
• :trophy: OOO_132_Final_Upgrade_OMOD_ready_7zip-15256
  
• :trophy: OOO_133_OMOD_ready_Patch-15256
  
  OR
  I also, while making this thread, found 1.33 OMOD version: OOO_133_Complete.7z
  As well as the OOO_134_Beta_Patch.7z

First question: Are these all the correct files?



And if so, going step by step...how do I use these files the right way?

These will work. Have you initialized BAIN as I instructed above? After doing that, convert the UOP 3.2 OMOD to an archive and drop it in the Bash Installers folder. Move the MMM37 BSA and public release, OOO 1.33 complete, and OOO 1.34b5 update archives to the Bash Installers folder as well. I posted the instructions for converting OMODs to 7z archives above, and I have also posted links to the OOO 1.34b5 update, the UOP Hotfix and the stand-alone OMOBs modules. Once you have all of those archives in that folder, I will proceed with the BAIN installation.

Thanks, one moment.

Exact names aside, when you launch Wrye Bash and click on the "Installers" tab, you should see the following packages:

UOP 3.2.0
UOP Hotfix
OMOBS 1.0
OOO 1.33
OOO 1.34b5
MMM 3.73
MMM 3.7 BSA

That is the order that you want the packages to be arranged in as well. To sort packages, select one and use ctrl+up/down, or right-click on a module and choose "move to..." Once your packages are in the above order, you need to go through each one and check the right options (plugins and subpackges.)

UOP: You should not have to do anything. The UOP plugin should be checked. That's about it.
UOP Hotfix: You should not have to do anything. Plugins seemed to be checked by default in BAIN.
OMOBS: Uncheck the SI plugin. I recommend leaving the optional settings module checked.
OOO 1.33: You should not have to do anything, but this mod is not packed well for BAIN. If you see plugins other than the OOO ESP, let me know. I might have to help you repackage it.
OOO 1.34b5: Uncheck whichever optional module you do not want. The only optional module I remember is OOO Fish? Do not use that if you are suffering for performance. Plus, MMM has its own fish module, Diverse WaterLife. You need to grab the update from the MMM thread if you decide to use it.
MMM 3.73: There are lots of subpackages and options. From the main modules, you need the MMM ESM, MMM for OOO ESM and the MMM for OOO ESP. After the main plugins, the options are up to you. Read the first post of the MMM thread to find out what the optional modules are about? If you are unsure about some of them, ask, and I will answer to the best of my ability.
MMM 3.73 BSA: You have to do something a little special in this case. First, go to the Bash Installers folder. Find this archive and extract it there. You need to rename the MMM BSA to make sure that it will be loaded by the game engine. Rename it to "%PluginInYourLoadOrder% - MMM.bsa" without the .ESP of the plugin's name. The plugins has to be an ESP, not and ESM, and it should not have any spaces in the name. You may need to make a dummy plugin to achieve that purpose. (I'll break here so that you can catch up.)

Okay, I'm sorry... how do I do this again?

In OBMM, right-click on an OMOD and choose "convert to archive." I would not bother including the OMOD conversion information. Just save the archive to the Bash Installers directory (default: C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers.)

Edit: I broke off at an awkward time above, so I'll finish now.

MMM 37 BSA (continued): In order to create a dummy plugin to load the MMM BSA, grab a copy of the blank ESP in Bash's Mopy Extras folder (%OblivionInstallDrive%:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Mopy\Extras".) Copy it to the folder where you extracted the MMM BSA. Rename the blank ESP to "Oblivion.esp" and rename the MMM BSA to "Oblivion - MMM.bsa." Now, select the ESP and the BSA and add them to an archive (right-click and choose one of the "Add to" options.) Back in the Bash "Installers" tab, you should now see the archive with the BSA and the dummy plugin. If you do not see the archive, right-click on the "Installers" tab and choose refresh data (not the full refresh) to refresh the package list. (You could do a full refresh, but that takes longer and is not necessary in this case.) Move this archive to the position of the MMM 37 BSA archive as indicated above.

May I step in and say that you should definately keep to OBMM and not switch to BAIN if you're more comfortable with OBMM.

Furthermore, OBMM has the great advantage of scripted installation, which if you use the OOO omod installer and my MMM omod installer, ensures that those mods get installed correctly.

You will surely get them up and running much easier/faster by sticking to OBMM than switching to BAIN. BAIN is a good tool, but not as newcomer-friendly, and certainly not for the complex mods if they have omod installation scripts.

What's with all the "No this, no that" mods? No werewolves, no wyvern...

Is this only because you don't like a particular creature type?

Albertine tried the MMM installation script, and it did not go to well apparently. In general, I agree, but I can walk someone step-by-step through the BAIN installation of this setup. Without a guide, it is definitely not the one for newer mod users to start out with. Also, modifying the install is definitely NOT faster with OBMM, and MMM has so many plugins to try out. Sometimes you want to switch those in and out, and it takes less time when you do not have to reinstall the entire mod to do it.


Albertine, this dude is the one who designed the scripts for these big overhauls. I used almost all of his OMOD scripts before switching to BAIN. If you do use OBMM in the future. You will probably want to check out one of his threads for a convenient script

Edit: ...just read your last post. Yes, many people find certain creatures or the concentration of certain creatures troublesome. For example, you pointed out the Wyvern. Those are very strong dragon-like creatures. Sometimes the powerful creature additions of MMM and/or FCOM are a put-off. It can be a little on the daunting side for users new to those mods or those who are not as adventurous. The other popular "no" or "reduced" plugins are the modules that pertain to the various rats. MMM does add a lot of them...I always recommend the Safer Roads option though. You can try playing MMM without that spawn changing plugins and then add them back after trying the game out. They can be added to an existing game without trouble.

Okay. I need to pause here and ask just what the hell I'm doing, because I'm really getting lost here. Should I use OBMM?

I have no interest in getting into modding or anything...I really want the cheesiest, simplest way just to get these great mods to work so I can play and enjoy. How do people play these mods if it's so tough to learn how to use them? Surely there's a simple way?

I'm following along with ya Tom, but you're in the deep end of the pool, and I'm a two-year old without a life jacket.


:dead: