There's a big difference between the Roman Senate in the Roman Empire and the Roman Senate in the Roman Republic. There were decades of bloody civil warfare during the transition between the two entities, and the Senate was completely reformed into a new body kept around by Augustus only to appease the masses and the retain the 'idea' of a republic. What you're suggesting is that an Elder Council who enjoyed many privileges under the Septims and were appointed for life effectively put their fate in the hands of a people who really didn't do much during the Oblivion crisis and turn the Cyrodiilic Empire into a representative democracy. I'm sorry, empires just don't turn into republics. More likely the Elder Council will appoint someone who they think they can control and keep up the facade of Empire, and they will do so until they mess up and appoint someone they can't control and Cyrodiil has a single powerful ruler once again.

From the beginnning, I never compared the Elder Council of the Septim Empire to the Elder Council of the Roman Republic. Heck, I never mentioned the Senate from the republic days. And we don't know what they've been doing, but we do know that they've been holding the Empire together. We just haven't seen them.

And people don't normally turn into giant stone dragons. Portals don't generally open up inside cities. Anything can happen in The Elder Scrolls universe. Heck, anything can happen in fiction in general.

You never specified. Plus the whole parliament-esque body morphing from a empire to republic or vice-versa, there really aren't any other parallels to be made. We haven't really seen them, you're correct, but it's not too far-fetched to assume that they're snobby aristocrats who, although they have successfully held the Empire together, were not required to do so for very long and nor were they particularly successful when it came to supplying sufficient numbers of troops to those areas even within Cyrodiil that were most affected by the Daedric invasions.



I <3 circular arguments. I really do. But they're not much fun when the other person doesn't get immediately frustrated by them. Sorry.

And that kind of fiction where anything can happen is known as uber leet svckage.

I wanted to sig it. There's no room. :'(

The fact that the premise of the games is that their events are written on the Elder Scrolls kinda, and by kinda I mean completely, destroys the idea that Morrowind isn't on the scrolls.

My bad, I http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/hope_of_redoran.shtmlit. The Nerevarine Prophecies are not seperate from the Elder Scrolls, but are similar in that they are kept secret.



The provinces probably needed the legions more. Most of the provinces probably had both daedra and unrest. Cyrodiil, being the seat of the Empire, only had daedra to worry about. At least for the moment. Besides, we know nothing about the competence of the Elder Council.



There's a first time for everything. Besides, the reverse happened; I'd say its plausable, especially considering that the Septim line and the Amulet of Kings, the two big things that determined who would rule for the last 433-or-so years, are gone.

I just hope the entire point of an "Empire without an Emperor" and "Who will rule it" will not be reduced to an hoax overheard while walking near two NPCs chit-chatting.

Ocato was useless as a temporary ruler. In the entire game there wasn't a hint of him doing something useful and the Legions were being slaughtered by the Daedra (as in that scene in the fortress where they fought against the forces out of a gate). Very far from good leadership models. The fact that all Council members turned tail to flee to their provinces will not make the Council much popular after the crisis.

Martin was the one to organize the mess and help save Bruma with the help of the Champion. He even could have used the support of a public figure like the Champion of Cyrodiil to help him rule in the beginning of a new empire.

Minoan? I think you mean Etruscan.



Less than 500 years between the overthrowal of the last Etruscan king of Rome and the time of Julius Caesar.



Why is a single leader a 'natural thing to have'?

It's natural because it's what shows up most often in nature.

That's not actually true. Nomadic creatures and Nomadic peoples generally don't have "leaders." Nomadic peoples in RL usually have a rudimentery forms of democracy. Stationary and specialist systems usually have a single leader, so most Empires have single leaders.

A democracy/republic is not the natural shape for a specialist lifestyle. That is why the United States of America was considered the great experiment. It obviously succeeded beyond everyone's wildest dreams and others adopted the system. We got to leave modern sensebilities out of TES as it is a feudal system. I believe that the future of the Empire is that is will remain as it is, except ruled by the Elder Council. Not as a Republic, mind you, but as an oligarchy. Or Ocato will take the place of Emporer (an Ayleid emporer, how bout that).

Yes, but I think you're just nit-picking.

Alpha male.

I think you're correct.

Still, my main point of modern sensebilities still applies.

We can only hope.

That was the only thing wrong with Kingdom of Heaven.

Well not having an empire, and probbly going to die anyways seems to be, at least to me, a worse way to rule an empire.

The fact that he held the Empire together during the crisis tells that he did a lot. Its not like any of the game involves sitting and watching the Elder Council argue for hours; that's too boring. And Ocato did say that he discussed Martin's claim to the throne with the Council.

Getting some else to martyr themselves would be better. That's what most rulers do. "We all have to be ready to sacrifice our lives for our Empire. Except me, I'm too important." The point is that Martin would be an aweful ruler because, well, because he's dead. He had to be a hero and die.

He didn't just save the Empire. He saved the world, and ensured that Dagon could never invade again. No degree of leadership could surpass that.

Doesn't change the fact that Martin is dead. I repeat, he was a hero, not a leader. He saved the world, not ruled the world. And he's dead. He is the ultimate hero, giving up his life to save the world. Which makes him a bad leader, because he is dead.

Reminds me of the lich from Battlehorn Castle; she wanted to put an undead Lord Kain on the throne of Hammerfell. Before Garridan and Lord Kelvyn's father sealed them up.

You're right, he was not a leader. But that was not a bad thing.

It's a major obstacle into being a good emporer, though. He was a hero, which is good. He wouldn't be a good Emporer, because he had to be a hero and get himself killed. Not Emporer material.

Yet as a hero, he did more for Tamriel than he could have ever done as Emperor.

No doubt. I would never try to argue that.

Lord forbid! If the empire becomes republic that all magic which in it is will disappear. The way is simple: republic-> ochlocracy -> progress-> magic disappearance-> the modern world. The modern world without mysterious and magic.

Here's how it goes, Tiber Septim has a son, a messiah, who will come and save the people from their sins. Martin plays the role of Jesus, Yay! Now Bethesda can say they have a Jesus figure!!!