Martin Septima's ?tragic death for the sake of a victory over Mehrunes Dagon put me in a mourning. The true Emperor, able to lead Empire to the Golden Age has disappeared on fire of daedric evil. As it would not be desirable to trust in it, but the reality has appeared more terribly... And only chancellor Okato alone sit enthroned in a hall of the Elder Council... The last of his name, born under the rose, Martin could be the greatest of governors... The Life proceeds, gapers are surprised to height of a statue of a dragon, and only in your heart a pain and hatred to world laws in which to gain a great victory it is necessary to bring a great victim.
To my mind Martin is the greatest Emperor of Tamriel. What is your point of view?

Martin was a priest and a hero, not an Emperor.


You must realize that Martin was raised as a commoner and not as a prince. Therefore I doubt he really knew how to rule the Empire. I think he lacked the knowledge to do so.

Furthermore, Martin struck md as a really nice and noble person. While these maybe good traits for a priest to have, for a king or emperor, being to nice is sometimes not an option. An emperor sometimes has to make tough descisions. Sometimes even has to decide things that go against morality. I think that Martin was just to nice to have been able to go against his own consience.

Well, he did seal the gates forever. Definitely a timeless act.

The acts of a hero, not an emperor.

As Emperor he is even worse then Mad Pelagius. He would not have made a better then emperor then any other random commoner.
As a hero he can be compared to the likes of the Nerevarine and the Eternal Champion.

Technically, he never was emperor; he never lit the Dragonfires.

Understand, that education and formation is for nothing in. The main thing in Martin's spiritual power. He was as a spring for the time being compressed, but during necessary time straightened. Martin without education possessed all necessary qualities for the emperor.

True. Though he did, in a way, light them.

It is formalism

He had magentism. Obviously.


And a great coronatio scenario. There's not a man alive who would be able to satisfy the public as far as dealing with the present situation. He had the gods on his side, and no one else did.

To Eldignis: I don't understand you completely, but I think you mean that the things that make Martin suited for being emperor is his charisma and his personality.

I don't agree with you about this. Martin struck me as being to nice and to gullible. If massacaring an entire city is what it takes to keep the peace, could he have ordered it's destruction?

It is true that Martin inspired the soldiers fighting under his command at the battle for Bruma. But I think that had more to do with the fact that he was the last hope for the Empire then with his charisma.

Not quite. We have phrase in our language "Duhovnaya sila". Letter for letter it is translated like "spiritual power". But it is not so. It is not only charisma and personality. It is large notion that include some conteptual categories like as "inward", "soul", "talent". It is hard to explain.

Do you mean that sometimes, great leaders seem to be surrounded by some sort of aura that sets them apart form other people? An aura that makes others look up in awe against their leader?

Why does everyone say that he would've made a bad empire? IMO, a good emperor is just someone who is willing to make sacrifices and do anything for the good of the empire. Obiously, Martin had that.

The qualities of sainthood and kingship do not often meet in one man. A good emperor is not one who is willing to sacrifice himself for his people but one who is willing to be ruthless for them. Otherwise his reign will be short and his martyrdom the talk of the empire for, maybe, a year. Martin could defeat Mehrunes Dagon by mantling Akatosh. But the more commonplace enemies of an emperor are unimpressed with spiritual power and cannot be controlled through it. If he wants to keep, say, Helseth under his thumb, he'd better do so with crooked trade agreements and carefully declined dinner invitations.

"But many a king on a first-class throne,
If he wants to call his crown his own,
Must somehow manage to get through
More dirty work than ever I do."
(Gilbert and Sullivan, The Pirate King's Song from The Pirates of Penzance)

martin was a quiff, I would have made a better emperor

He had bravery to sacrifice himself at the moment of extreme need and imminence, but then we would all probably have that same courage in the same situation.

For most of the game he was whining though about how he doesn't think he can do anything at all.

Stature? Glory? This is all very fascinating. I can't say I agree, though, and perhaps this is because I can't help but cringe on seeing Yet Another Christ Figure. But as for his skills, I don't think it would make much of a difference how skilled he is or was. As the head of an empire that stretches across an entire continent facing few immediate external threats (supposing the Daedra are defeated) and little internal unrest, I'd be surprised if he screwed it up. Mostly he'd rely on the people beneath him. Especially since the provinces seem to have an autonomy Tibetans can only dream of. Only time would tell how Martin would have handled his authority and provided for his subjects. The initial period of rebuilding and recovery would give little opportunities to for an emperor to display his leadership.

But many for others, I suppose. There is no better time for idealists, populists and opportunists than during and after great periods of loss and suffering. They'd have religous leaders and warlords rising in power all over Tamriell.
Especially in the vacancy of the Imperial Legions, if they are pulled back. I don't think there is enough Imperial Influence in various provinces to keep their leaders in order without military force. Unless the would-be-Emperor moves there himself, which I highly doubt Martin would have. Too much symbolism involved.

I don't think Martin would have made a good emperor, but that has more to do with my low opinion of emperors and empires than Martin. I think Martin was too good a person to lower himself to that station.

I doubt it. Faced with Mehrunes Dagon in person most people would panic and flee. Perhaps one in a thousand would've tried to fight him but to sacrifice yourself in the knowledge thats the only way to defeat MD requires even more courage.



And nobody else could've done what Martin did.
None of which has anything to do with how good an Emperor he would've been.

Still I disagree with this idea that because he was brought up a commoner he wouldn't have made a good Emperor. He had more experience of real life than your average spoiled princeling.

I don't think so. I think most people, armed with knowledge of the amulet and ability to use it would have done so.

Yes, true. Know, no one could have done what Martin could have done, but we're talking in hypothetics here.

Most commoners have more experience with real life than your average spoiled princeling.
Does that mean that most commoners would make great emperors?

Martin was the hero, not the leader. He showed great personal courage, he was ruled by honor and good, and he was willing to matryr himself for his country. These are traits of a great hero that will be sung about throughout the ages. These are not the traits of a great leader of a massive empire. Would he be willing to crush an uprising? Would he have the ability to order the death of a fellow man? Would he be willing to court all the leaders and would he find a way to avoid their scams? Would he be able to deal with people like Helseth of Morrowind, Gortwog of Orsinium or Elysana of Wayrest, who have no honor and rely on trickery? These are the traits of great leaders, but not great heros. Uriel VI is a great emporer, while Uriel V was the great hero.

Dark Brotherhood :hubbahubba:

I'm not sure I understand. Do you think that Martin would use the Dark Brotherhood? Well, we know that Helseth is willing to use both the Dark Brotherhood and the Morag Tong, and maybe do a little killing himself.