The only problem being is that we are in the final stages of MMM. Corepc and the rest of the team have already stated that we are not currently expanding MMM, we are finalizing it. Without a final MMM, FCOM will never be final; this is something we are all working to obtain.

Maybe, sometime in the far away future Corepc might entertain these thoughts, but I am most certain Corepc would like to be able to devote time to his mods which he has had to set aside for MMM.

What about a stand alone mod, then? One that can come in the load order after, or in place of, the MMM H&C plugin?

I'm using DLC Thieves Den; it contains two fences who sell 100 lockpicks each.
Though my character is a pure evil (60 infamy, 0 fames, 40000 bounty) and it's not a member of Thieves Guild or DB.

I have a problem:
Is it possible that the npcs could not recognize or follow the pathgrid when

Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

is enabled.

I use a FCOM installation and disabled and disabled .... the active mods till the npcs follow the pathgrid and don't run against walls, crates, trees, doors, ... . I think there is a problem with the "fish plugin".

I will do a little more testing.

please do , as I've noticed npcs in the waterfront and around walk-sliding agaisnt walls

Test area Imperial City Waterfront.

No problem with this setting:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]07  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.3]08  DLCShiveringIsles.esp09  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]++  Shivering OOO.esp0A  Oblivion.esp0B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp0D  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp0E  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp0F  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]10  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]11  Fran Armor Add-on.esp12  DLCHorseArmor.esp13  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]14  DLCOrrery.esp15  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]16  DLCVileLair.esp17  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]18  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp19  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1A  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1B  DLCThievesDen.esp1C  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1D  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1E  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp1F  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]20  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]21  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]22  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]23  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]24  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]25  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]26  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]27  DLCfrostcrag.esp28  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp29  Knights.esp2A  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]2B  Alternate Start Revamped.esp2C  Bashed Patch, 0.esp2D  FormID Finder4.esp

But with this setting:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]07  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.3]08  DLCShiveringIsles.esp09  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]++  Shivering OOO.esp0A  Oblivion.esp0B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp0D  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp0E  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp0F  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]10  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]11  Fran Armor Add-on.esp12  DLCHorseArmor.esp13  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]14  DLCOrrery.esp15  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]16  DLCVileLair.esp17  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]18  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp19  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1A  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1B  DLCThievesDen.esp1C  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1D  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1E  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp1F  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]20  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]21  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]22  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]23  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]24  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]25  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]26  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]27  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]28  DLCfrostcrag.esp29  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp2A  Knights.esp2B  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]2C  Alternate Start Revamped.esp2D  Bashed Patch, 0.esp2E  FormID Finder4.esp

Difference: the enabled "27 Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]"

The nps get the "fishi disease" and walk against stones, walls, trees, crates ... -> the npcs ignore the pathgrid.

-1 of 344 mods

Try Moving Diverse WaterLife Below Knights, UOMP Knights, FCOM Knights, and see if that helps any?

Moved Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3] to a position after FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3], rebuild bashed patch and the "fishi disease" comes back. Npcs walking against walls, stones, ... .

Tried it with this load order:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  TR_OoT_Main.esm02  Jog_X_Mod.esm03  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.7]04  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm05  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm06  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]07  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]08  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]09  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm0A  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]0B  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0C  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.3]0D  Artifacts.esm0E  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm0F  Better Cities Resources.esm10  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]11  HorseCombatMaster.esm12  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.3]13  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]14  DLCShiveringIsles.esp15  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]++  Shivering OOO.esp++  OMOBS_SI.esp16  Better Cities .esp17  Oblivion.esp18  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp19  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp1A  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp1B  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp1C  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1D  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1E  Fran Armor Add-on.esp1F  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp++  OMOBS_FRAN.esp**  Loading Screens - Vanilla No Text.esp20  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.7]21  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.7]22  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.7]++  All Natural - Enhanced Weather.esp  [Version 0.9.6]++  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp23  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp24  PowerAttack Voicemod - The Shivering Isles.esp25  Storms & Sound.esp26  WindowLightingSystem.esp27  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp28  kuerteeAutoSaveAndTime.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.77]29  KF Chapel Shop.esp2A  More_Vegetables.esp2B  Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp2C  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.5]2D  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 3.1]2E  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.0.2]2F  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0.2]30  DLCHorseArmor.esp31  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]32  DLCOrrery.esp33  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]34  DLCVileLair.esp35  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]36  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp37  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]38  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp39  Growlfs Hot Clothes.esp3A  SentientWeapon.esp  [Version 3]3B  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.4]3C  Thieves Arsenal.esp3D  Extinguish the Lights.esp++  Thieves Arsenal - Extinguish the Lights Patch.esp3E  XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp**  Armamentium female.esp3F  AncientTowers.esp40  DLCThievesDen.esp41  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]42  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]43  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]44  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp45  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]46  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]47  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]48  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp49  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4A  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4B  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp4C  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]4D  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO-DLT_Remover.esp  [Version 1.33]++  OOO_XiaNewAmulets Addon.esp  [Version 0.5]++  OMOBS_OOO_missing_Oblivion_Bow_Ammo.esp++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp4E  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.3]4F  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]50  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]51  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]52  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]53  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]54  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]55  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]56  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]57  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  OMOBS_MMM.esp++  OMOBS_MMM_H&C_Ammo.esp58  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]59  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.39c]5A  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]5B  ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions4MMM.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]5C  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawnsandItems Merged Plugin.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.0]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.3]++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]++  Fransfemale.esp++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]++  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp5D  Castle Ravenpride.esp  [Version 1.01]5E  Ivellon.esp  [Version 1.8]5F  00RBScribeSupplies02, read summary.esp60  Atropa.esp61  Artifacts.esp++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 0.20]62  Better Benirus Manor - Helping Hands.esp63  Better Benirus Manor for Cobl - Complete.esp64  Delivery Job - BC.esp65  eyja.esp66  Gaelendryl.esp67  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp68  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp69  EiAmod.esp  [Version 1.1]++  EiAmod_ShiveringIsles.esp6A  OldCrowInn.esp  [Version 1.5]6B  GlenvarCastle.esp6C  LetThePeopleDrink.esp  [Version 2.5]6D  MountainTower.esp  [Version 6.0]6E  One Stop Armors.esp6F  Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop.esp70  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 2.6.1]++  All Natural - Real Lights - The Ayleid Steps Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]71  thievery.esp72  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 1.0]73  TR_Stirk.esp74  Stirk_Compatibility_Patch.esp75  Unique Dungeons - Lichs Lair.esp76  Unique Dungeons - Lost Glory.esp77  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp78  VHBloodlines 1.2.esp  [Version 1.4]79  Apachii_Stores_Merged_Plugin.esp7A  za_bankmod.esp7B  DLCfrostcrag.esp7C  Kvatch Rebuilt_Frostcrag Reborn.esp7D  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp7E  Knights.esp7F  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp80  SM Plugin Refurbish(Merged).esp81  TOTF.esp++  TOTF Delayer.esp82  RTT.esp83  The Lost Spires.esp84  The Lost Spires_delayer.esp  [Version 1.1]85  Mighty Umbra.esp86  Blood&Mud.esp87  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp88  The Mystery of the Dulan cult.esp89  HoarfrostCastle.esp++  HoarfrostCastle_delayer.esp8A  MannimarcoRevisited.esp8B  MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp  [Version 0.1]++  FCOM_MightyUmbra.esp  [Version 0.9.9]8C  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]8D  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.9]8E  FCOM_DulanCult.esp  [Version 0.9.9]8F  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp++  FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  EDI - Aggression Fix.esp90  ElsweyrAnequina.esp91  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.3]92  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp93  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.1]94  xulTheHeath.esp95  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp96  XulEntiusGorge.esp97  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]98  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]99  Anequina-Fallenleaf-Patch.esp9A  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2]9B  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]9C  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.2]9D  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]9E  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]9F  HoarfrostCastle-LushWoodlands patch.espA0  EtInArkay-UniqueLandscapes Merged patch.espA1  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.1]A2  SentientWeaponII-AncientYews patch.espA3  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]A4  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A5  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.2]A6  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]A7  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.2]A8  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.espA9  xulPantherRiver.espAA  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.1]AB  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]AC  Gaelendryll-BrenaRiver patch.esp  [Version 1.1]AD  NakedNord.espAE  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.3]AF  xulBlackwoodForest.espB0  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0]B1  Blood&Mud-CheydinhalFalls patch.espB2  TearsOfTheFiend-CheydinhalFalls patch.espB3  KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.espB4  CastleRavenpride-CheydinhalFalls patch.espB5  DungeonsOfIvellon-CheydinhalFalls patch.espB6  Castle_Seaview.espB7  CastleSeaview+LostCoast Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]B8  bartholm.espB9  Bartholm-Panther River Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]BA  JQ-Fighters_Guild_United.esp++  FCOM_FighterGUnited.esp++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]BB  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]BC  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]BD  Pitcher Plant and Lily Ingredients.espBE  kuerteeCustomisableHUDComponents.espBF  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.1]C0  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.espC1  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.espC2  npcjump.espC3  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]++  Enhanced Vegetation [100%].espC4  Storms & Sound - Bank of Cyrodiil.espC5  Storms & Sound - Bartholm.espC6  Storms & Sound - Blood&Mud.espC7  Storms & Sound - The Lost Spires.espC8  Storms & Sound - Better Cities.espC9  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]CA  RealisticForceAndMagicForceMedium.espCB  TFE.espCC  TFE Cobl Glue.espCD  Roughing It.espCE  Gather Ye Rosebuds.espCF  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.89]D0  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_COBL.espD1  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_VanillaSpells.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]D2  MidasSpells.espD3  Midas OscuroGems.esp++  Midas Betterholy.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Midas Creature Ingredients.espD4  FrostcragMidasLab.esp++  Midas Tigernolevel OBSE.espD5  Midas BeastFortify Fix OBSE.espD6  Fizzle.esp  [Version 3.0]D7  RshAlchemy.espD8  ZumbsLockpickingMod - OBSE.espD9  kuerteeClothingMatters.espDA  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.4]DB  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.espDC  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp++  SM_DeadlyReflex.esp  [Version 0.86]DD  nGCD.espDE  Progress Merged Plugin.espDF  Legendary Abilities-Fortify Health MOJ.espE0  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp**  Let there be Darkness All Merge.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.77]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Reborn.esp  [Version 0.77]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk, reduced.esp  [Version 0.77]E1  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]E2  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]E3  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]E4  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.esp  [Version 9.0EV-U]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFangs.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp  [Version 10]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, Vanilla.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]**  bgBalancingOptionalNPCDiversityKvatchRebuilt, for Wrye Bash.esp  [Version 9.0EV-D]E5  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.51EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]E6  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 0.96]++  bgIntegrationEV - Unique Clothes.esp  [Version 0.96]++  EVE_KhajiitFix.espE7  Better Cities - Full City Defences.espE8  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.espE9  BCBravilB&MFULL-Barrowfields patch.espEA  Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.espEB  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.espEC  Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.espED  BCCheydinhalFULLB&M-CheydinhalFalls patch.espEE  Better Cities - Thievery.espEF  Better Cities - VHBloodlines.espF0  Better Imperial City.espF1  Better Cities - Old Crow Inn.espF2  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2]F3  Better Cities IC Tunnel FPS Patch.esp++  Visually Realistic Deadly Lava.esp++  CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.espF4  nGCD-bg_Helper.espF5  Bashed Patch, 0.espF6  MergedMaps.espF7  FormID Finder4.esp

will try it with a reduced version ...


With reduced version:

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]07  HorseCombatMaster.esm08  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.3]09  DLCShiveringIsles.esp++  Shivering OOO.esp0A  Oblivion.esp0B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp0D  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp0E  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp0F  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]10  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]11  Fran Armor Add-on.esp12  DLCHorseArmor.esp13  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]14  DLCOrrery.esp15  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]16  DLCVileLair.esp17  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]18  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp19  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1A  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1B  DLCThievesDen.esp1C  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1D  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1E  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp1F  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]20  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]21  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]22  DLCfrostcrag.esp23  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp24  Knights.esp25  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]26  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]27  Alternate Start Revamped.esp28  Bashed Patch, 0.esp29  FormID Finder4.esp

Npc walking against walls, trees, stones, ... ignoring the pathgrid.

Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp <--- needs some work

Well for some reason I cannot rest for more than 24 hours without CTD. Is there a console command to help with this? I just reinstalled MMM and need to rest for 4 days. Or can I just play the game and after 4 days it all resets?

Hi all, I just have to say this mod has been a lot of fun to play! But I have a question following up what others have said recently.

I also have a issue with Hunting and Crafting not working properly

I can work with shears and use the pelts I collect and such but I can't make arrows due to the feathers not working when I click on them (I used to to be able make this work on a old character and a older version of MMM).

The only way I can play now (without making arrows) is by having this really weird load order:

Oblivion.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp
Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Living Economy.esp
Living Economy - Items.esp
Cutthroat Merchants.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Blood.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Undead Rise.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - LessReaversInGates.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Rats.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Roads.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Friendlier Factions OOO.esp
[GFX]_Initial_Glow-self.esp
Streamline 3.0.esp

As soon as I put Hunting and Crafting below MMMforOOO, the save doesn't load (it freezes). I've done the usual tricks such as unloading a plugin and creating a save, waiting for 4 days in a isolated cell indoors, then reloading the plugin and such.

Funny thing is, I have a save that I created ages ago when my character just started in the sewers and for some reason this save does load up when I have Hunting and Crafting below MMMforOOO. This probably means that there's nothing wrong with the mods themselves, it's my fault for not paying attention to my load order when I updated mods!

My question is this: Is there a way to use Wyre Bash to hack into my save file and tell it to expect the Hunting and Crafting mod after MMMforOOO? If not, what do you guys use to fix up saves that don't load due to bad load orders orders?

I can confirm the pathing problem thie Diverse Waterlife

My question where are you resting at? in a safe location away from npc and creatures I hope. Did you do a full reinstall has needed. Made sure that BSA is named properly has needed for MMM config that you are using..



Please use Boss to sort your load order and see if that helps. Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD needs to below G&GD itself.

H&C has to be loaded after MMMforOOO in order for it work. else H&C will just not work.

You need to install BASH in order to get things to play nicely together.




I did not make any pathgrid changes in Waterlife, so it has to be something else with Waterlife causing the problem..ai overload or script causing it to happen..

I have always run Waterlife before FCOM knights, and have noticed no unusual pathgrid behavior ... is there a specific spot where this is happening? If it is generalized behavior by all npcs, then it sounds like a mod is affecting them, one that you are running and I am not... but I am certainly willing to go check it out. Maybe we can narrow the problem down.

WaterFront Area is where is happening at. There is a fish spawn point that could be causing it to happen. Close to IC Tunnel Entrance..

Could the people having the problem use "togglepathgrid" to see if they can spot the problem?

I used "tpg" and "tpl".

With diverse waterlife enabled the ai ignores the pathgrid and takes the direct way between the starting and ending point - if there is a wall, stone, ... the npc walks against it.

example of a bad situation: if you do the "May the Best Thief Win" quest Methredhel the Bosmer run against the wall because she wants to reach the tunnel, but she could not. After a few seconds she calls Scotty for beaming her to Amantius Allectus -> absolute no chance to win this quest.


I think the pathgrid is not the problem, the problem is that the ai of the npcs ignores the pathgrid with diverse waterlife enabled.

I wanna rabbit boots! they're soft, and so quiet so I'll be a sneak master

really guys, you haven't thoughs how to craft rabbit pelts? so in example they can turn into special boots, and by adding other materials you can do better.
many things are possible not only to McGuiver :hehe:

Are DiverseWaterlife and OOO-Waterfish compatible? Or advisable together?

I think I found the problem with DiverseWaterlife.

scn cswaterlifefloat timerbegin GameMode	SetAllReachable 1	if IsSwimming == 0 && timer > 1.0		evp		set timer to 1.0	endif	if timer <= 0.0		evp		set timer to 10.0	endif	set timer to timer - GetSecondsPassedend

It calls SetAllReachable on the fish, but that affects all NPCs at once, I think. http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/SetAllReachable



You could check this with SkyCaptain. He was using that for his jumping mod that is going to be in DR6

Not running any city overhauls, only ImperREAL districts, Level 1 character: The pathgrids are okay, but at some point the npcs veer off them and get stuck or go for a swim. Reloading the save game in that same cell with DW disabled, they seem to suddenly wake up and fly right (the khajiit that was up to his neck in the drink needed a little nudge by talking to him)... I wasn't even running Knights (or FCOM Knights) in this game. I'm going to try moving stuff around, just in case it may be something else that's loading afterward that's having an effect on it.

wait, you mean DR6 is gonna have JUMPING NPCs?

He actually released the JUMPING NPCs mod as a standalone file that is useable now, but yes DR6 will have NPCs that will jump over or onto things in order to gut you in a horrific fashion.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1041793&view=findpost&p=15206937

You are correct, after further testing. Removing spawn that was close to waterfront helped, but, there are other spots where fish where close to shore that where affecting npc's etc.

Pathgrid avoidance happen when fish spawn around npc's and creatures, has the game force settallreachable on them has well.

But this is what allow the fish to freely swim about in water finding rocks, otherwise they would need new pathgrid's placed underwater.

But it should be really removed since it actually hurting gameplay. Has Baphomental pointed out..Npc will just avoid path and take shortest route or will run into wall etc..

Now have to figure out new swim ai..



What I posted above..

:swear:
You could be right. In fact, you probably are. Which makes it rather a 'Catch-22' situation. Without 'SetAllReachable', the fish will try to get to the nearest path node - which will be on land (there are no, or at least very few, path nodes in the water). This means that they will flop around on land more regularly than they do at the moment - that code is specifically designed to stop them flopping around at the water's edge.

Edit, because CorePC beat me to it...

I'll have a think, as well as another look at what Water Life does, because the slaughterfish it adds have the same 'flopping around on land' problem, but don't seem to cause AI pathing problems.

Eloise

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