I changed the textures to high, now I can go into the water but after either swimming for about a minute or fast-travelling to a location directly next to water the game will crash.

If its spawn related CTD, removing ANY esp that effects spawn list will "temprarily" fix the problem since it "reshuffles" the spawn. I thought the same thing as I would get CTD and remove for example more NPC variants. Poof! - CTD goes away then comes back somewhere else. Remove another spawn list ESP and think poof! fixed - and finally realized its just the spawn itself...If you want proof, just rebuild you bashed patch whenever you CTD and it will go away (temporarily).-

edit: Not pointing to MMM at all as the culprit just stating that there is no way to tell if the mod (diverse waterlife) caused the problem by removing and loading save.

Well, my missing armor issue returned after I reinstalled COBL 1.72 (only with Imperial Legion and battlemage armors at this time). I am going to experiment with removing one or more of the COBL patches which load after the body mods (starting with MMM-COBL.esp).

OK, now the CTD is back somewhere else (Bloodmayne Cave Labyrinth, diverse waterlife is deactivated), so what can I do about it if removing ESPs only works temporarily?

Do not see how that could have happened since cobl does not modify the legion or battlemages armor or npc.

Make sure you are not using Diverse Imperial Armor.

Are you sure you reinstalled Roberts for OOO and MMM and FF Armor has well.



Interior or Exterior that would be helpful. Are you doing fighter guild quest?

Randmon CTD out in the wilderness these are hard to track down has to what is cause this.

Try disabling Additional Enemy Variants see if that helps. Till the update is posted later today. Maybe that will help.

Read up on Bash and learn how to make a bashed patch.

Is it safe to use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19994 with MMM-OOO-Knights? If so, what of the recommended LO?

It was inside, entering the second level of the cave. I was not on a fighter guild quest.

Deactivating additional enmy NPC variants seem to have helped.

That looks like it would be hard to use. It would have to go wherever the last UOMP or SM Refurbish patch is listed in a regular load order, and in doing so it would be well out of order for the other parts of the refurbish.

Any higher, and some parts will definitely be overwritten, but loaded that low parts that should be overwritten may not be.

Hmm... I'd imagine that the ESP would work well when loaded right after the DLC's (which are bundled together in BOSSified LO anyway), but I can imagine it having problems with mods that alter the DLC's and load after the DLC/Patch-Refurbish bundle (such as Knights). What kind of changes are in KnightsOOOMMM, by the way?

Since the MMM-OOO-Knights modify the original Knights.esp (right? I'm not sure if I'm correct here), then I'm guessing LO would be something like this:
DLC's
Knights.esp
PatchesRefurbish.esp
KnightsOOOMMM.esp

From my understanding, this LO would apply all of the patches and refurbish perks to DLC's, and then AFTER that, KnightsOOOMMM would apply it's changes. Correct?
Btw, the UOP&R esp is already in BOSS masterlist, but I'd like to doublecheck.

I definitely reinstalled Roberts for OOO and MMM, as well as the FF equivalents. Instead of using Diverse Imperial Armor, I am using the FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity addon.

Speaking of Wrye Bash, is it possible my Bashed Patch (or rather, the options I used to build it) is causing these issues?

hey guys!
i'm not sure if what i say in this post is still relevant for this current version.
it is about the OnLoadCSNPC from 3.5.5 - which i still use.
so if the OnLoadCSNPC script in 37b3 has not changed (i.e. still uses ModAV to apply penalties to derived attributes), then this post is still relevant.
here's the script:

scn zzMMMOnLoadCSNPCshort sRandomshort sProcfloat fScalefloat fStatbegin ScriptEffectUpdate	if sProc		Dispel zMMMOnLoadCSNPC	elseif GetItemCount zMMMBPWToken != 0		set sProc to 1		return	else		set sRandom to GetRandomPercent		if zMMMScaleActors			set fScale to (sRandom / 700) + 0.94			SetScale fScale		endif		set fStat to ((sRandom / 100) - 0.5) * (GetAV health)		ModAV health fStat		set fStat to ((sRandom / 100) - 0.5) * (GetAV fatigue)		ModAV fatigue fStat		set fStat to ((sRandom / 100) - 0.5) * (GetAV magicka)		ModAV magicka fStat		set fStat to (sRandom / 5) - 10		ModAV strength fStat		set fStat to (sRandom / 5) - 10		ModAV intelligence fStat		set fStat to (sRandom / 5) - 10		ModAV willpower fStat		set fStat to (sRandom / 5) - 10		ModAV agility fStat		set fStat to (sRandom - 50) / 5		ModAV speed fStat		set sRandom to GetRandomPercent		set fStat to (sRandom - 99) / 3		ModAV aggression fStat		set sRandom to GetRandomPercent		set fStat to (sRandom - 50) / 3		ModAV confidence fStat		if GetItemCount zMMMBPWToken == 0			AddItem zMMMBPWToken 1		endif		if GetItemCount zMMMFeignToken == 0			AddItem zMMMFeignToken 1		endif		if GetInFaction DremoraFaction == 0 && GetItemCount zMMMFleeToken == 0			AddItem zMMMFleeToken 1		endif		set sProc to 1	endifend

my query concerns the use of ModAVs on the derived attributes of Health, Fatigue and Magicka.
i believe (but i could be wrong about this) that modifying any of these attributes with ModAV simply adds a penalty to them.
i.e. ModAV doesn't actually take away from their base values.
and its ultimate result will have the NPC's "normalised-base" stats at, for e.g.: health 120/150, magicka 80/90, fatigue 110/120.
any magic effects that restore those stats will never restore the difference between their "normalised" value and their "real base value".
e.g.: magical healing effects will only restore the npc's health to 120, magicka to 80 and fatigue to 110.

in my games, i've been noticing mages continually casting healing spells on themselves.
(i believe psymon has a similar experience in his game but with orcs.)

now, admittedly, i never noticed these before until psymon reported that these continuous-npcs-casting-bug were apparent when my Battle fatigue and injuries.
however, i can't seem to find the cause of them in my mod over the last 2 to 3 weeks i tried:

• my ActorDetails.esp (lists these inventory, spells, active effects and factions on npcs activated with the right-shift key) shows that the effects of my BFandI mod is not active on these NPCs.
  
• and disabling the mod doesn't remove the occurance of them: i saved a game with an NPC (who i modified the disposition of so that he doesn't attack) that was continuously trying to heal himself.
  
• i also tried a combination of MMM extra wounding, my BFandI and abo's Realisitic Fatigue mods
  
• my tries to remove the occurence by code (i thought fractional healths may be the culprit) failed.

i've left this CSNPC report as my last option.
what do you guys think?

EDIT: here's the link to my ActorDetails.esp: http://sites.google.com/site/kuertee/kuerteeActorDetail.esp utility

No, as far as I am aware these scripts haven't changed for about 12 months.

This is correct. Unfortunately, ModAV is the only safe way to do this. SetAV works on the base actor, rather than the current reference, and ForceAV can cause compatibility issues.


Yes, it's MMM that causes this. And your anolysis is spot on. Because their base health doesn't change, they think they are injured, and try to heal themselves. However, because MMM has set their health lower than their base, they never manage to completely heal themselves to their base health.

If we had a way of safely modifying their base health as well, it would solve this problem, as well as the problem of actors whose health has been increased by MMM not showing the health bar until they are injured below their base health.

Eloise

hey eloise!
thanks for your reply!
whew! this bug has surely tested my moddings skills: i've tried everything to try track it down.
and i wanted to leave reporting it here as the very last option - which it was.
anyway, at least i have a direction to head for.

ok...it seems that this bug is more prevalent in my Battle fatigue and injuries mod (BFandI).
there are some bugs in the current version of my mod - but nothing that directly initiates the continous buffing/healing of NPCs.
so the trigger is indirect - i.e. will be hard to pin down.
psymon has experienced the self-buffing of orcs in his game to stop when BFandI is deactivated.
but i've experienced the self-healing of mages in my game to continue when that mod is deactivated.

anyway, would adding drain and fortify effects to attributes be an alternative?
i already do this in my BFandI mod to add "battle fatigue" (tiredness after battle as penalties to MAX health) and injuries (injuries as penalties to attributes) to the player and NPCs.
however, i'm not sure if it'll have the same effect: NPCs thinking they can heal themselves with a DRAIN effect on health.
i've not noticed it in my game because its rare for an NPC with a heal spell to survive: "battle fatigue" in my mod is applied when an actor's health drops below 25%.

i'll do some tests.

Would it be possible to make an OBSE dependent patch for the MMM script that removes healing spells when the NPC is at or above their "modded" health level?

Ohh cool progress on that bug/issue - whatever you want to call it that is most politically correct.

Just to clarify. That when i find an orc that casts berserk power repeatedly in my game that the game will crash on the 3rd cast every single time.

I then uninstall Battle Fatigues and they stop, but yes I've found other NPCs who will cast buffing/healing spells repeatedly without a crash. I then will get through whatever section of a dungeon or wherever and then re-activate battle fatigues and it will be good for a while - until it starts again.

As an example I was going into a dungeon added by Hoarfrost Castle (to get the priest) and each entry into the dungeon was met with a ctd. I then did the console command ~tai to turn of AI processing then was able to enter and strolled through the place to find most of the many NPCs there had health bars that kept reducing with a constant and rapid drain on their health. I found the rooms with the orcs and slew them then reactivated the AI and although I was still killed the game did not crash.

I then deactivated Supreme Magicka (and a few other magic based mods) and loaded the game prior to entering the dungeon and no one cast any heal spells. Went back and tested it again with magic based mods active and there was no bug at all and not one NPC tried to heal themselves.

I don't know what triggers it, but when it is there it is maddening. It is not ALWAYS there with battle fatigues mod either - transient, but again when it appears it is persistent.

The Tarantulas are awesome. Hard to spot in the grass, so you often notice them first when suddenly paralysed by one. Also insanely fast - I just love how they scurry away really quickly when low on health. Plus they look great. Are they by Alienslof? Anyway, excellent work.

I've also found a new respect for Spider Dryads. Can't remember them being quite as deadly - or perhaps they turn up in lower levels now? Anyway, they are formidable enemies when in teams.

Hi there,

First of all, this mod is great! very neatly packed as well which makes things a lot more organised

Quick question, I've unloaded all my other mods and loaded everything back on with this mod and I've noticed some strange graphics. To be more specific, I'm getting "soup" like textures for distant textures like the old pre-patch version of Oblivion. I remember one of the official patches fixed this up but I've noticed that it seems to have come back. Is this normal? It's not a big issue considering everything else seems fine in terms of gameplay. Who knows, the lower quality distant textures might increase my performance

Normally, I'd never poke at release dates (I completely understand the point of "when it's done"), but since there's a hint of a new BSA and esp's, I'm putting my reinstall on hold waiting for the next version. So I'm sorry if I'm being obnoxious (especially in the light of everything that CorePC did for MMM, Arma, TT and a boatload of other mods), or if I sound ungrateful (I am most definately not - I extremely appreciate the work)... I'm just trying to tiptoe around to see when will I be able to play.

Tarantulas are by Alienslof

Spider Dryads, have not changed them at all nor did I change what lvls they show up at either, so luck of the draw.



In older verson I included the pepper effect that was added by patch 1.2.0416 by accident,

since you have uninstalled, you end up uinstalling this file has well. Do not worry you can get it back with one of these instead.

http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/lod2.html or

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18677



Well once APY move the bsa (repackaged with arrow fixes) from the pes ftp to pes then I can post the update. I Uploaded it two days ago, so it should be today

If not then, I will go ahead and post the esm/esp updates and link to b3bsa On both PES and TesNexus. That is my plan. Will notify APY once again this morning..

Corepc

If you're already off on vacation by the time they move the file over then I'm sure Lilith, myself or someone else on the team can keep a weather eye on PES and notify the thread when the BSA is available...

Vac

I leave for vacation later today, so I am hoping it get moved before then. I still have a few hours before we leave after all.

Else, I will do what I stated above upload the 3.7b3 esm/esp update with a link to megaupload for the bsa.

And if bsa is not moved until after I leave for vacation, I can give either you or lilith access to my pes or tesnexus has needed to update the download links and mirror links has well. How does that sound?

----------

Since there is going to be a new Release, Going to force everyone to use this version

Has I am going to remove all older version of MMM from tesnexus in particular and perhaps even PES has well.

So grab any old version before they are gone later today.

The plan sounds good. Lilith's the #1 choice for getting permissions as she's been in charge of MMM before (and did a sterling job, might I add). On the other hand some RL stuff failed to transpire and right now it looks like I have quite a lot of spare time, so if she's busy I'm happy to help where I can. I'm rapidly running out of wisps to make!

Good plan for removing the old versions, I think. Autumn cleaning; clear out the old, make space for the new! It also helps make/keep installation simple.

Have a great vacation too!

Vac

The problem is that MMM's randomisation is... well, random. An affected actor's health can be increased or decreased by up to 50% of its base value, and any drain/fortify effect would have to have a fixed amount.


I think we'd rather keep MMM not dependent on OBSE. Of course, an optional OBSE module might be a solution for some players. But there again, it may cause a load of "I installed the OBSE plugin but I'm not using OBSE and it doesn't work" posts :rolleyes: .


Just a shot in the dark, but do you use Race Balancing Project and COBL Exhaustion? If so, it's probably the orcs casting their 'Beserk' power several times. Somebody said it's something to do with one of the effects - drain/damage magicka? - causing CTDs when it reduces the stat by more than a certain amount.

Eloise

Next time I come up on an orc that is casting berserk over and over (if it happens anywhere consistently it is Cheydinhal fighters guild).

I already tried removing COBL exhaustion with no success and will try RBP next. Good thing my character is a Nord and will not be too affected by unloading RBP.

Since I use Integration it is not as though I can do extensive testing without RBP and not lose lots of progress with that mod.

I was actually thinking that since the mods that conflict most badly with this behaviour all seem to be OBSE based, that a patch could be made and included in their downloads. That way you can be sure that whoever is using it is also using OBSE.