I can't wait to select a vague option, only for my character to spout off a paragraph of stuff I didn't actually want them to say, in a voice that doesn't match the appearance or personality of what I created.

Well, logic can't be destroyable. But it can be arguable. If you have an argument, I'd be happy to hear it.

But what is faster. A button press? Or holding down for a stick, or tapping it like many people do, and... oh what was that last one. In design, a good GUI is a GUI that gives off the most information quickly, and is at the same time be easy to use.

Which is why a lot of good PC GUIs usually has everything on the screen at once, and the user could move crap around. Which... is also why Oblivions GUI just svcked on PC. It was souly designed for consoles. You just get used to it.


As for the previous one? Yeah, I see where yall are coming from. But, it's a matter of wait and see. Again, the argument presented is a slippery slope, and that's seditious thinking.

That's actually a big problem with the mass effect games. If it wasn't for the game telling you which is the bad option and which is the good most peoples would've ended up confused because you can't tell a tone or paragraph from like 5 words.

Right but what I'm saying is...

Ok so let's all put our heads together and try to imagine why Bethesda would do this. Like let's imagine a spectrum of possible motivations here. Perhaps they're really greedy and don't care about quality so long as they make money....? Doesn't make sense cause if we have 5 pages of people saying "I hate this" then such a change just discourages sales. No matter what motivation you attempt to assign to Bethesda, whether it be "they meant well and thought we'd like it" or "they just care about money," none of them make sense because simple QA testing would tell them this is hated.

At this point I'm just super curious as to why. I cannot imagine why on earth they'd make this change, what led them to this and what they expect the series to gain from this.

I love your signature because it exemplifies not only TES now, but Fallout as well!

I'm at such a loss for how this came about.. Wait no.. I take that back. They're going to be rolling in the money from this release by ignoring fans on their forums.

I also hugely agree on what you're saying. There will be so many reloads because of my character saying something other than what I actually chose.

Think about it: The opinions of people on the forums are in no way the majority. There are far more people interested in games that require less thinking and don't penalize us with consequences and what not.

They will inevitably make more money by ignoring us on the forums, so I actually do think it stems from a desire to make more money than a quality game.

I mean, you have devs like CDPR and Obsidian who actually listened to fan comments and talked with their fans on the forums. Then you have Bethesda that just doesn't.

If skills and the dialogue system weren't removed/streamlined I'd probably be relatively optimistic about Fallout 4 but Bethesda has totally gutted Fallout of anything resembling it's original design ethos.The mutation is complete...

or it could mean that they are giving you four options based on your character build. Say if you have high intelligence and charisma, response options reflect that. Likewise if you don't pass a blind skill check, it's never an option shown at all.

ive got no complaints all this means lines will be spoken instead of read but maybe for the people that want to imagine there own voices for the player it can be switched off.

Exactly. The list of dialogue options gave you a variety of ways to say and react to what an NPC is saying an a variety of methods to obtain information. To put it simply: IT WAS MORE. More things for your character to say, more things to discuss with NPCs. I don't understand the reason to knock it all the way down to only four options.

I'd agree that the reveal of this mechanic is a little cringy, but I'm willing to give it a chance. I'd bet there's more to it than what we've seen. And I'm not sure if it's been covered already, but as far as the third-person forced view, I don't think it was forced. As said by someone here, they were switching the view throughout the reveal. And to me, I think they wanted to show off how well the voice went along with the lip movements. They didn't want us thinking that it was gonna be Oblivion.

And one of those buttons can always have 'More ..." and lead you to another subset of dialogue choices if need be. Mass Effect's dialogue frequently did.

I simply hate it. No chance of getting as varied responses, never done with voiced protags, that's not gonna change wiht FO4.

Also the whole paraphasing? Where you're never REALLY sure what your character is actually gonna say and in what tone? Horrible. Absolutely a poor choice.

Truly a sad day for the franchise...

No idea why they would go to a voice acted protagonist, but I think the lack of dialogue is a direct consequence of the voice acting. They can't afford to voice as many lines so the dialogue suffers. Pretty simple.

"Master Howard, you look famished! That's what 200 years without proper nutrition will do to you! Shall I get you some food?"

>selects "Get food"

"Shutup you worthless tin can. Any idiot can see I need answers far more than food right now, so why don't you go get your food and shove it up your shiny metal ass? >:C"

Faster =/= better.

Yes, moving a stick and pressing a button is better and it offers the player to understand what their character will say better. The original dialogue tree was perfectly fine. It was fine in skyrim, it was fine in Oblivion, it was fine in Fallout 3 and it was fine in New Vegas.

Again, I played all four on console first then PC, the UIs for the four previously stated games were very easy to use with a controller and we also got more information and could grasp what our character would say unlike this where at most we'll see 5-6 words that can't accurately depict what our character will say.

All of the GUIs svcked on PC. The Pip-boy in both new vegas and fallout 3, Oblivion's inventory and don't even get me started on how bad skyrim's was. That's percisely my point, saying this dialogue wheel is fine because it's "good for console users" is downright wrong, the previous dialogue tree was perfectly fine and easy to navigate for console users. A dialogue wheel is just not as good.


I feel bad for mod-makers, especially quest ones, who have to work with this terrible dialogue wheel.

Perhaps it has to do with the thing Todd mentioned where we can just walk away or shoot them in the face mid-conversation. For consoles, those actions would require the use of the anolog sticks, which were previously used to shift through the dialogue choices. Now that we only have to press a button, the sticks are free for us to use in other ways.

I suppose this is what gets me: proof?

Where are all these supposedly simple-minded (or whatever) people who love this kind of stuff, and dialog as "complicated" as the stuff in FO3 and FO:NV scares them? Companies may make these claims, but I've never seen any proof of it, yknow? Perhaps you might say sales is the proof, but there's a LOT of factors going on. Example: was Skyrim's success a result of it's quality, or a result of it's marketing campaign...? It's not as simple as "Skyrim sold millions, therefore axing attributes was a smart move," and yet companies seem super eager to draw lines between these two like cause and effect. Why?

That is what amazes me, because I certainly know far more people who hate this new feature than those who love it. It's very difficult to imagine that somehow the sample I have in front of me which is 99% against this is somehow the complete opposite of how the complete sample looks.

First thing on this forum that actually made me laugh!

I'd have to have the game running to know for certain, but I'm pretty sure I always clicked B to walk away from dialogue on my xbox. So it's not much different.

Believe me I understand and it seems nonsensical. But I have also seen on websites like Reddit, gamefaqs, etc that voiced is better than silent, or streamlining of stats made more sense. It's obviously not proof because I honestly have none it's just based off on what I can reason.. But here is an example of what I mean: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.241333-Poll-Voiced-protagonist-or-silent-protagonist?page=3

Also think of it this way: Todd Howard is basically the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxgkXxa9c3s of gaming. Michael Bay sells VERY well.

Welp, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But my stance still stands, "Wait and see".

Sides... if you think it's that bad. Just stop complaining and give it two days the moment the modding tools are released. I guarantee you someone will bring it back. Or expand upon it.

Because it certainly doesn't take much thinking to add more onto the thing instead of pouting with, "OH! It only gives me three options!?"

Just turn the thing into a fricken rolling list and you get your box back. It's basically the same dang thing.

If being forced to not be able to shoot while in dialogue means I don't have to deal with this crappy dialogue wheel, welp, I'd prefer to not be able to shoot while in dialogue.


Except this is a big design flaw, PC users always get the short end of the stick and the dialogue trees were a good thing for both PC and console players. Instead bethesda decides to take it out that one good thing and give us a pile of streaming crap.

It's poor UI design and does nothing but limit conversations and give us vague dialogue choices.

it looked fine. and i think its better to have all the options condensed in one place so you can see them all at the same time instead of having to scroll up and down.

I think you are nit picking

The female voice actor in these types of games is always better. Video games don't give female actresses much time to shine, so when they get roles like this they really put their heart into it. Look at Mass Effect - Jennifer Hale was killing it as Fem-Shepard, while Mark Meer really mastered a deadpan delivery. Maybe it's just a case where women feel more free to show emotion, and the male actors think "bad-ass" equals stoic.

Yeah .... except the camera swapped to do perfect over the shoulder and facing actions depending on who was talking. You could be right, but it still appears as if camera movements are at least a little scripted in dialogue.

Now. Now. We don't KNOW that dialogue will work like Cole's did in L.A. Noire.

Little Old Lady: I don't have anything to do with this. I swear.

>selects "I Suspect You Aren't Telling the Truth"

Cole: I will end your life old lady! I will beat you to death with this shoe! *Snarl* *growl*

http://global3.memecdn.com/la-noire_o_282793.jpg

B used to exit dialogue. But you couldn't walk around and such while talking people like you apparently can now. At least that's what I gathered from his description. We didn't see any of the things he talked about in practice, so I could be way off.