Materials in Skyrim : V - Skyrim

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:43 am

Isn't Mythril just aluminum?

No ... lol

Also your misspelling of 'aluminium' is quite understandable given Americans inability to pronounce the word

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:20 am

No ... lol

Also your misspelling of 'aluminium' is quite understandable given Americans inability to pronounce the word

What's up with the superiority complex? There are many dozens of English language dialects, and there is no "correct" one. I could argue that people who speak British English are not speaking "correctly" because they have changed the language from its Germanic origins.

Something that's actually on topic: I wonder if you'll be able to turn various materials into different types of armor. For example, maybe you can use iron ingots to make either platemail or chainmail.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:55 am

How about some bronze? It would be lower than iron in defensive and offensive properties but bronze is just so gorgeous in color and luster.
Other than that, the old favorites will all hopefully make their returns. From Iron to Daedric and Fur to Glass (or whatever the highest light armor is).

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:35 am

What's up with the superiority complex? There are many dozens of English language dialects, and there is no "correct" one. I could argue that people who speak British English are not speaking "correctly" because they have changed the language from its Germanic origins.

What's up with your complete lack of humour? What a horrible dry place the world has become when people shy away from even the most innocent banter...

I am fully empathetic as to why he misspelled the word aluminium. Unfortunately there is an 'i' in there, and it has always made me smile that americans just can't say the word. Same with 'nuclear' lol...

Whether or not the English are actually speaking English 'correctly' is an interesting and complex linguistic idea. However, the evolution of language over time is a completely different matter to the pronunciation of current use words.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:23 am

I would like to see more variety. And for we have seen, we will have. I mean, in the images we have been shown there are several leather armors.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:22 am

I would like to see metals and crystal outside of bowmaking this time. Would be sweet to have this time composite bows, longbows, shortbows. Fantasy material waise chitin, bonemold, trollbone and dragonbone could be OK. Bows made of different trees fictional and real, would be OK also.

Of course I am aware that this is only a mater of names, but is something that I would really like.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:36 pm

Einsteinium!

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:31 am

Obsidian. Although, it's a volcanic material so it wouldn't really fit in Skyrim... meh.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:46 pm

I think it would be good if you could buy pickaxes etc and mine your own raw materials and get a blacksmith to forge them into weapons and armour

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:50 am

What's up with your complete lack of humour? What a horrible dry place the world has become when people shy away from even the most innocent banter...

I am fully empathetic as to why he misspelled the word aluminium. Unfortunately there is an 'i' in there, and it has always made me smile that americans just can't say the word. Same with 'nuclear' lol...

Whether or not the English are actually speaking English 'correctly' is an interesting and complex linguistic idea. However, the evolution of language over time is a completely different matter to the pronunciation of current use words.

It might have been funny if he actually misspelled the word. Generally, in America (and Canada), the word is spelled "aluminum." Americans pronounce it differently because that's how the word has evolved over here. There are some scientific circles that pronounce and spell it "aluminium," but the discussion of which is "correct" is a much more complicated issue:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum#Name
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/aluminum

As for Americans not being able to pronounce "aluminium," that's a false and sweeping generalization based on the misconception that it's spelled the same way on both sides of the Atlantic. As for "nuclear," don't take our former president's pronunciation (nukular) as the way all Americans say it. I've always held that anyone who pronounces it like that should not be in charge of a single nuclear weapon.

Something that's actually related to the topic: I also really like the idea of cutting down different types of trees to make bows from multiple types of wood. I think we should have the option to make various wooden arrow shafts also.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:22 pm

STALHRIM!!!

No ... lol

Also your misspelling of 'aluminium' is quite understandable given Americans inability to pronounce the word

Don't. Be. Ridiculous.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:49 am

Obsidian. Although, it's a volcanic material so it wouldn't really fit in Skyrim... meh.

There is a volcanic tundra. So it's not out of place, really.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:14 am

I'm pretty sure the Elder Scrolls equivalent of obsidian is ebony, which if I remember correctly from Morrowind is a rarer, stronger, and heavier version of glass.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:20 pm

I'm pretty sure the Elder Scrolls equivalent of obsidian is ebony, which if I remember correctly from Morrowind is a rarer, stronger, and heavier version of glass.

Yes, I was thinking about that, too, but I wasn't sure.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:52 pm

It might have been funny if he actually misspelled the word. Generally, in America (and Canada), the word is spelled "aluminum." Americans pronounce it differently because that's how the word has evolved over here. There are some scientific circles that pronounce and spell it "aluminium," but the discussion of which is "correct" is a much more complicated issue:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum#Name
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/aluminum

As for Americans not being able to pronounce "aluminium," that's a false and sweeping generalization based on the misconception that it's spelled the same way on both sides of the Atlantic. As for "nuclear," don't take our former president's pronunciation (nukular) as the way all Americans say it. I've always held that anyone who pronounces it like that should not be in charge of a single nuclear weapon.

Wow. Don't you think it's a bit funny that a new spelling of the word was at all necessary simply because Americans couldn't pronounce it? Not even slightly... ? lol

If you just take a quick look at the periodic table (seeing as you're determined to go down this route), how many elements contain the suffix of 'ium'? Because after a minute or so you will start to notice a little trend appearing...

So yes there is an accepted 'American' spelling of the word which appeared almost 200 years after its discovery, but I think it's hilarious that any form of rebranding was necessary in the first place.

There is a tradition to allow the discoverer the right to name things like elements, who are we to change them? There are lots of big words out there - should we attempt to shorten them all into a series of monosyllabic grunts to make life easier? no lol

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:32 am

Adamantium?

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:24 am

Diamond armor would be pretty cool

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:34 am

Unobtainium!

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:05 pm

Yes, but you still need the resources to create them. Unless they would just be really rare and only found in Dunmer houses or pawn shops.

Well, they'd probably bring something with them, but sort of the point was to have dunmer look (culturally) like dunmer.

Someone said Adamantium Too, that was one of my favorite Armors in Morrowind.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:18 pm

Wow. Don't you think it's a bit funny that a new spelling of the word was at all necessary simply because Americans couldn't pronounce it? Not even slightly... ? lol

If you just take a quick look at the periodic table (seeing as you're determined to go down this route), how many elements contain the suffix of 'ium'? Because after a minute or so you will start to notice a little trend appearing...

So yes there is an accepted 'American' spelling of the word which appeared almost 200 years after its discovery, but I think it's hilarious that any form of rebranding was necessary in the first place.

There is a tradition to allow the discoverer the right to name things like elements, who are we to change them? There are lots of big words out there - should we attempt to shorten them all into a series of monosyllabic grunts to make life easier? no lol

Ugh...

Spoiler

Saying that Americans are unable to pronounce "aluminium" is like saying English people commonly say " 'ello there ol' chap, pip pip cheerio and all that rot. tally ho."
Did you even bother to read a single link there? Here, let me make it easier. Humphry Davy originally named the element "alumium," but when he published his Elements of Chemical Philosophy he had renamed it to "aluminum" :
http://books.google.com/books?id=d6Y5AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA354&hl=en#v=onepage&q=aluminum&f=false
His peers "took the liberty" of altering the name to "aluminium." They preferred aluminium because it has a more "classical sound" :
http://books.google.com/books?id=uGykjvn032IC&pg=PA72#v=snippet&q=%22aluminium,%20for%20so%20we%20shall%20take%20the%20liberty%20of%20writing%20the%20word%22&f=false
Besides, "aluminum" appeared in the Webster's Dictionary 16 years after it was called that in Davy's own book:
http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=Webster%27s&word=aluminum&use1828=on
I have no idea where you get "almost 200 years" after it's discovery... Davy named it in 1812 and it wasn't even isolated until 1825-27... Besides, you act like there are no elements that end with "um" rather than "ium."

Now for something that relates to the actual topic that was intended to be discussed in this thread: There could be Morrowind enemies like scribs/kwamas near the Skyrim/Morrowind border, as a source for chitin armor ingredients. Also +1 for diamond armor, as long as the diamonds can be set in a useless golden suit of armor.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:19 pm

Ugh...
Saying that Americans are unable to pronounce "aluminium" is like saying English people commonly say " 'ello there ol' chap, pip pip cheerio and all that rot. tally ho."
Did you even bother to read a single link there? Here, let me make it easier. Humphry Davy originally named the element "alumium," but when he published his Elements of Chemical Philosophy he had renamed it to "aluminum" :

His peers "took the liberty" of altering the name to "aluminium." They preferred aluminium because it has a more "classical sound" :

Besides, "aluminum" appeared in the Webster's Dictionary 16 years after it was called that in Davy's own book:

I have no idea where you get "almost 200 years" after it's discovery... Davy named it in 1812 and it wasn't even isolated until 1825-27... Besides, you act like there are no elements that end with "um" rather than "ium."

Firstly, the English stereotype of 'pip pip, tally ho, etc' has never actually represented anywhere near a majority of people in England, but that doesn't stop it making me laugh every time in The Simpsons, Family Guy, or Friends (etc). Where as 'aluminum' is the American pronunciation and spelling.

Secondly, 'Webster's dictionary' is an American standard. It is not used in England, and is recognised in the international community as 'the american-english' dictionary. Links to the history of aluminium in Websters dictionary does nothing other than confirm my point.

Thirdly, who is it that makes dictionaries? Is it an international body of scientists specialising in one area of expertise? (no) But luckily for us there is one of those for applied chemistry, you could have read about them in some of those links you posted. IUPAC only accepted 'aluminum' as an acceptable variant in the 1990's - about 200 years after it was discovered.

All of this is somewhat away from my starting point, which was meant to be a light hearted remark about how Americans say aluminium. Forget what the rest of the world does, do it your way. Why not lol... It's a bit like the relationship a parent has with a slightly simple child

So have a donut, and look up what an 'americanism' is. Then try to accept that you're funny in the same way that the tea drinking, posh English people are funny.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:53 pm

(snip)

A few thoughts...

First, I find it interesting how you skipped the fact that the man who named the element chose "aluminum" and that others decided to change it. That makes for a pretty good basis for an argument that, in fact, the Americans are the only ones who pronounce it right and everyone else is wrong. It'd be like a collection of authors deciding to rename a certain hobbit Fredo, then saying that the Brits don't know how to pronounce his name right when they say Frodo.

Second, the dictionary is put together by scientists. Linguists, to be more precise. It's a record of how people speak. That means that after only 16 years, the use of 'aluminum' was wide spread enough to warrant being put into the dictionary.

Third, snide remarks about race, nationality, religion, etc are rarely considered humorous.

Now, for a more serious comment about the topic, since my last two posts in this thread were anything but... A part of me isn't really that concerned about what materials are in. I'm more interested in the actual design of the armor pieces. When I play the game, I never go after mithril because it's mithril. I go after mithril because I like it's look and stats.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:21 pm

A few thoughts...

First, I find it interesting how you skipped the fact that the man who named the element chose "aluminum" and that others decided to change it. That makes for a pretty good basis for an argument that, in fact, the Americans are the only ones who pronounce it right and everyone else is wrong. It'd be like a collection of authors deciding to rename a certain hobbit Fredo, then saying that the Brits don't know how to pronounce his name right when they say Frodo.

Second, the dictionary is put together by scientists. Linguists, to be more precise. It's a record of how people speak. That means that after only 16 years, the use of 'aluminum' was wide spread enough to warrant being put into the dictionary.

Third, snide remarks about race, nationality, religion, etc are rarely considered humorous.

Spoiler

Well thanks for getting involved Mitheledh. Even if it is about as welcome as a stubbed toe lol...
We've already established that the element was originally named 'alumium', but thanks again for coming

If you'd like to view linguistics as a science that is up to you, but for the sake of clarity when we're dealing with an actual scientific issue it's not really correct to sweep it all up into one bag. My point was that the most relevant source of information regarding the offiality of a chemical name is IUPAC and not one of the many conflicting linguistic studies drawn out for dictionaries.

Finally, I strongly believe in the freedom of speech, and until the issues surrounding nationality, race and religion are demystified they will never cease to be issues. So although it is certainly easier to assume the moral 'high ground' by being politically correct - I think that could in actual fact be a more damaging societal force to us globally.

Some of you guys really need to lighten up, and learn to pick your fights. There was (and is) no malice behind my words, so imo your reactions are overly defensive.

So yeah, Mithril is not actually aluminium.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:49 pm

Lots of cool, interesting stuff.

Spoiler

The only reason I even mentioned Webster's dictionary is that you said "there is an accepted 'American' spelling of the word which appeared almost 200 years after its discovery." That's clearly wrong. Even if you said "the 'American' spelling of the word first appeared in scientific literature almost 200 years after its discovery," you would have been wrong. Let's just try to agree on a few simple observations:

- The element was named "aluminum" by Sir Humphry Davy himself, not an American.
- The IUPAC didn't even standardize the name as "aluminium" until 1990, and only three years later said "aluminum" is an acceptable variant.
- Americans do not have difficulty pronouncing the word as either "aluminum" or "aluminium."
- It is natural to prefer the pronunciation and spelling of a word that is most common where you grew up.
- America has over 300 million unique residents.
- Jokes about America's pop culture, celebrity obsession, world police attitude, ridiculous politics, etc tend to be much more funny than "lol Americans are unable to pronounce 'aluminium'" Remember the episode of Family Guy where Stewie tries to get the English girl to pronounce words like knife, wife, and life with an American accent? Yeah, it wasn't a very good episode (btw I don't know many Americans who actually think English people look/talk/act that way).
- This is a board dedicated to Skyrim, not chemistry, and when the average person talks about aluminum they are usually not talking about an explicitly scientific issue.
- This topic actually has nothing to do with how to spell or pronounce aluminum.
- You are right about mythril not being aluminum, considering it is supposed to be stronger than steel.

If it makes you feel better, I bow down to you and your Glorious UK English Master Race, whose sharp wit and linguistic skills are far superior to my American monosyllabic grunts. I mean I can't even pronounce "aluminium."

On topic: I agree about focusing more on actually making the armor and weapons look better than Oblivion's. As long as the crafting system is good, modders will add lots of cool materials and new sets of equipment.

» Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:18 am

- You are right about mythril not being aluminum, considering it is supposed to be stronger than steel.

If it makes you feel better, I bow down to you and your Glorious UK English Master Race, whose sharp wit and linguistic skills are far superior to my American monosyllabic grunts. I mean I can't even pronounce "aluminium."

Spoiler

I said it became accepted almost 200 years after (which is true of the scientific community).

Funny that you brought up Stewie, because his accent is clearly meant to be English lol. Probably some reference to all the baddies we play in Hollywood blockbusters (like Hannibal Lecter - Stewie's hair always reminded me of him). I'm not sure why we're talking about population figures now - but we can at least agree on that

Originally I was not trying to be stand up / laugh-out-loud funny, it was just a light hearted comment which you dived into feet first. I must have touched a nerve immediately adjacent to your inferiority complex or something...

Anyway, I agree this is not relevant for this discussion - which is why I've offered PM's and other 'olive branches' for the last few of my posts. It does actually make me feel better to have you bow down to the English master race though, I must have needed that kind of validation from someone for a long time now

lol