24 - You're out of luck. And yes : there was lots of moral greyness (Vivec, anyone ?), complex politics (see Mournhold) ; and while indeed not that many, a number of references to the actual existence of six (Barenziah, Crassius, etc).

Don't get me wrong, I hugely enjoyed the bag of tricks of Oblivion. But no, the world was not as mature as Morrowind's.


Well, I'd lie if I said that 'rainbows and ponies' wasn't partially prompted by the bright-and-bloom tones of the game. Aggressively cheerful, that was.

About half of everything in TES can be experienced elsewhere. This isn't a good argument. If it helps to portray the world better, and make it feel more real, then I'm all for it. six for the sake of having six, no. Exxagerated violence, no. Things like poverty, and like others have mentioned not just a straight cut good/bad. Gritty is good, because the world would have been gritty.

Morrowind was certainly darker at least... take the NPC greetings for example.

Morrowind Dunmer: "Bothersome creature." or "Make it quick outlander, or go away."

Oblivion Dunmer: "Hello! How are you?!" or "Hi, let's be pals!1"

A superficial example, sure... but the point remains!

I agree, oblivion's style was fine, even morrowinds was fine. I think that should be where they stay even with the improved graphics, there is no reason to force the fans who have enjoyed the game for years to be forced to make a moral choice like that when buying the game.

Well I could go LARPing for everything that TES offers really. Why are BGS even bothering to make the game again?

I hate these "the game should be exactly as I want it and these generic arguments serve as reason for everything else to be discarded" posts. They've become terribly prevalent recently.

well the reason it did get a mature rating was it had decomposed dead bodies strewn up on poles, there wasn't many sixual references (I kinda liked that about Oblivion though) and I liked the bright an bloomy

I wasn't aware that you made up the majority.

However, as for moral grayness, I'm going to point to the Mages Guild/necromancer conflict. Necromancy was perfectly legal in Cyrodiil and the Mages Guild was torn in half by the event. Then, in Bruma, Nordic and Imperial religion and culture clearly clashed. As for six, there is that one quest with the female thieves of Anvil, the affair between Lord Lovidicus and Agronak's mother, The Lusty Argonian maid, etc. If you're going to count the Barenziah reference as being under Morrowind, you should count it as being under Oblivion, as well, because The Real Barenziah series actually first appeared in an Elder Scrolls game before Morrowind (No, not every book in Morrowind was written for Morrowind; that "III" in the title actually means something), and for Morrowind, it was actually toned down, as far as "maturity" went. By that, I mean that they edited out the actual six part.

True about the dead bodies thing, hmm. Weird how it did not stick to my mind. I'll grant you that at least, the violence was more graphic. Bright-and-bloom is a matter of taste, I guess ; very much relieved by the tone of Skyrim myself.

I stick to the idea that Morrowind contained more moral greyness and intricate sociopolitics, though. In that respect Oblivion was less mature.

Agree with the OP.

Some say that if you're looking for violence and sixuality, look elsewhere; but I'm more inclined to suggest that those looking for the most sober and complex storytelling look into the great wealth of literature available to humans rather than 2011 action RPGs. I'm sure Skyrim's story will be great, and it's a valid reason to play an RPG, but the number of "only the story matters" comments and "serious mature non-sixual" requirements I see on game forums really is starting to make me wonder if there's any humour or imagination or escapism left in some of the "hardcoe" people.

Anyway; give us blood and heroic quests and a little nudity!

It's called "an Opionion". You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it. You really don't have to give a legit reason why you have that opinion. If someone asks a question you had best be prepared to get answers you don't like.

I'm thinking that there should be somewhere around the same level of sixual gameplay as Morrowind.
Besides, you play as the first Dragonborn to appear in centuries. The line of Tiber Septim were Dragonborn.
Something tells me the hero of Skyrim will have something to do with the next line of Emperors, and the only way that line can happen is...well...you know.

Gore isn't a big deal to me.
As long as there is a slider that lessens or increases it, I'm fine.

It may as well have been illegal considering the way it was portrayed and the fact that every necromancer was a dike to the PC.


Meh. Wasn't exactly explicit. Maybe a few pieces of dialogue. It didn't characterise the city as much as the "look it's a northern/nordic city where it's cold" theme.


The first quest was an immature, Victorian way of grazing on the topic of six. Lord Lovidicus's tale I will grant you had an actual moral ambiguity to it. I'm not really counting game books for or against any of the TES games unless it's a discussion about the richness of lore.

Oblivion was morally black and white as they come.

Yeah!

Well,for this case Necromancers was definately the "bad guys" and mages were "good guys" by the way the game portrayed them.

I agree that a mature story can be constructed without the use of "mature content", but including some of that content would definitely help in painting a darker, more primal scene.

No matter what tools are at the author's disposal, it all comes down to how well they can expertly trigger our emotional response, "mature content" or not.

Let's hope that Bethesda has got over excessive blood and gore and foul language with it's Fallout 3 game and will NOT incorporate same into Skyrim.
hokers in low class taverns are realistic and acceptable but not important.

I think he's more referring to the fact the guy doesn't want BGS to focus on six and violence because he can get it elsewhere, despite the fact that a lot of other things in TES games you can get elsewhere.

It's all well and good to have an opinion, but if you make contradictory statements, or just don't word your opinion well, then it will (and should) be picked apart.

By his logic BGS shouldn't include crafting or dragons, because you can get the former in WoW and the latter in DA:O.

Tell me. Would you consider Dagoth Ur to be morally gray? If so, why couldn't you join him? You couldn't join the necromancers in Oblivion or actually see things as one of them, but their practice was still legal, they had reason to be paranoid when the Mages Guild is hunting them, and it was clearly stated that the Mages Guild was divided on this.

Adding "red light" content could ruin the austerity of the feel.

Damn I take too long editing.


I don't. Just don't make assumption about who you are talking to, that was my point.

Lore-wise, you're not wrong : that irritating what's-his-name head of the mages messed things up for real ; in-game, it got all 'creepy dark necromancers vs nice mages'. Can't say there was any subtlety in the depiction of the Necromancers.

Not that obvious.

Missed that one.

Vampire. 'Nough said.

Daggerfall, I know that. Was talking bout meeting her. And Crassius. But I won't argue about the presence of six in Morrowind, it's barely more noticeable than in Oblivion.

Does Skyrim strike you as an austere place? You know, the homeland of the rowdy Nords?

I agree with the OP.

I'm not arguing that Morrowind was the best game evar and TES should go back to that and stay that way forever. I'm just saying that Oblivion really screwed up.

Besides, Dagoth Ur's motives were far more admirable than Mankar Camoran's "let's destroy stuff lol" presentation.

I'm curious of those who favor it.
Why would you want six and violence to be in Skyrim? What arguments do you have? Also please define six and violence. Do you mean six as an erotic theme or REAL six bang bang? Do you mean violence as gore (cut off heads and blood everywhere) or something else?

I only see comments like "Yes I want it!" and no real argument...

However, I do see some people who are against it, saying that it should only be in the game for the sake of something else (lore, quest, etc), not for the sake of itself. Some people are also saying that six and violence doesn't equal mature content. I agree with both of this.

It depends how it's done. By red light I assume you mean prosttutes/nudity and drugs. Because that's what the red light district is, right??

Anyway, tavern wenches are awesome. Not the actual tavern wenches, but the sense of realism it provides. It's doesn't have to be over the top bouncing briasts come and have six with me type, just subtle things.

And drugs can be done well too. Not the GTA style let's get rich selling drugs and doing drive-bys, but the darker side of the lower class districts, where you are bound to find some people addicted to skooma. It's just how the world works. Not everything is light and fluffy, and I hope the BGS decides to include mature content, but for the right reasons, and in a way that, like you say, doesn't ruin the austerity of the series.