Agreed. If realism was the only instance of a vague term everybody employs but attaching different meanings to it... (see 'freedom' : the freedom to do anything you want imply there should be no consequence to your actions, making that kind of freedom pretty much useless). Rather than realism, that other overused word, 'immersion' is perhaps better, or 'suspension of disbelief', maybe. It speaks better of the idea of that "emotional attachment" which is the end goal, really. If I'm happy to the apparent grimmer look of Skyrim, it's only insofar that I expect the story to have many effects on me - disquiet, puzzlement, fear (I better be hunted down by giant spiders in a dark forest, damnit). Make it a memorable experience.


Since the 'pony' reference hinted at a simplistic world view - white shiny knight vs. evil coated in blood, you sort of make my point for me.

Let's hope for this...

Some measure of blood and such is pretty much going to be necessary in a game like this, but I think Oblivion was about spot-on when it came to that. Fights ended up spilling about as much blood as I'd expect from them, and the real gore was limited to the areas through the gates where it served to show that you're in the realm of the Prince of Destruction now and it's a Nasty Place. Basically, it was used sparingly and thematically, how it should be. Skyrim might use a bit more violence and such because it's the pseudo-Viking land in the midst of a civil war, but it isn't truly necessary.

As for nudity... I'd rather the developers didn't directly avoid it because I dislike prudishness, but I wouldn't be really disappointed if it wasn't in. Of course, what I'd really be afraid of if it is included is that it'd just be used for objectification rather than any legitimate reason... the point wouldn't be to have briasts everywhere you can fit them in, but that people occasionally actually don't wear clothes for various reasons. I'd say that my view of ideal is getting rid of the perma-underwear but no need to add in more people without clothes (not that there won't be plenty of mods for both fairly quickly after the game comes out). Though, maybe, since we're in Skyrim, they could always bring back the naked Nords of Morrowind. sixual themes to quests and the like I'd gladly have in the game, too, but that'd be something I'd have to keep a close eye on due to various "unfortunate implications" problems that could easily show up.

Maturity, when it comes to gore and nudity, is really something that works on a bell-curve sort of thing. Up to a certain point putting it in adds to it, but after that it goes right back to being immature again.


But as for the real thematic and emotional maturity, I agree that Oblivion was quite a large step down in that regard... Daggerfall was the high point, of course, but I don't seriously expect every single game to have that complex and grey-on-grey of a plot (Lord Woodborne was about the only "villain" in the game, and even then he had the real motivation of political power, and there weren't any faultlessly good NPCs at all, with the possible exception of Medora Direnni). The possibility of being able to choose the side you supported in the end was great, but considering the lore mess it caused I doubt they'll leave the possibility of multiple endings like that open again. Though the plot as we know it so far does imply that the possibility of a Warp in the West-style event could result from whatever the ending is...

The Elder Scrolls is still a fantasy game; a genre limited in its audience when Elves and Dwarves are combined with six...

With the Lord of the Rings (PG-13) films, the genre received a large jump in popularity. So Keep it classy and the audience will increase.

The Dark Knight is one of the more mature comic book films I have seen by not including voyeuristic concepts; and compare how many people saw Watchmen and how many people saw the Dark Knight.

Best bet would be a slightly more mature content where mature themes are hinted at or explored. Morrowind was pretty good I thought.

What I dont think is a good idea is implementing six as an option etc, as it would just over shadow the game. As people have said, if you want six, get a partner. There's enough rubbish all around, on tv and the internet etc. No need to move it in to a game.

I don't think maturity means six and violence. It can definitely be improved on without being over the top or blatantly in your face where half the game is a cesspool . As for the violence I prefer a good combat mechanic and good gameplay rather than blood all over the place.

Gore- Adds realism, I highly doubt that it's very realistic to charge and hit someone with your sword and a tiny amount of blood to appear and them to go flying off backwards and gently floating to the ground.


six- Adds, more options of things to do after a long day of fighting stuff and being awesome.

exactly six and gore are just stuff that happen naturally

I don't think Skyrim necessarily needs to be more "mature" per say. However, I do believe Bethesda needs to effectively communicate the setting and atmosphere Skyrim is in. The Empire has been crumbling for the past two centuries. Skyrim's king has recently been killed, and as a result has divided Skyrim in a bloody and brutal civil war. As long as Skyrim has that nordic/conan/barbaric-esque since of immersion, the game will be "mature" enough for everyone.

Why do you guys want more mature content? I thought oblivion had enough mature content, maybe even too much

Thus why I was thinking of Daggerfall's multiple endings and morally grey factions. I have the sad suspicion that it'll turn out that the pro-Imperial faction in the civil war will be the Good Guys and the pro-independence faction will be a cover group for the Bad Guys, but I hope that each side will turn out to have good and bad facets, and you'd be able to choose who you support...

Each to their own. I'd be perfectly happy if there was no blood in the game at all, the graphical depiction is pretty irrelevant to me in this case, it's the mechanics of combat that matter more (at least to me).

Fortunately gore is perhaps one of the easiest things to implement a toggle for :thumbsup:

I would like some realistic mature content.

One could hope that Skyrim tackles more mature themes that pertain to quest lines and the like.

Please keep your one on one feuds in a pm.

Please refrain from inappropriate comments. This is a 13+ game regardless of what the game ends up being rated.

And enough with flaming one another. Many posts went away, some flames, some quoted flames, some off topic discussion and some inappropriate posts. Any and all of which can get the thread locked and possible electrocutionwarns for those doing it.

Sorry lost, I see you were exaggerating. Nothing gets by me... :facepalm:

I imagine that if the game was NOT rated mature it would be a lot less popular.
But anything with killing in it is not suitable, but is desirable, for kids.

I'm hoping that the game is more mature but I would want it to fit with Gameplay. If it's more gory that's not a bad thing but it shouldn't be overdone like Fallout 3. Skyrim is probably going to be rated MA as I don't see another T rating like Oblivion was but then had to be changed when Beth didn't fully disclose to the ESRP about certain scenes like Lucian Lachances corpse or the one room in Arkved's Tower.

I'm thinking it will be in between Oblivion and Fallout 3 in terms of content. You won't hear the swearing like Fallout 3 but you see more violence then their was in Oblivion, A higher level of scaring, etc.

I wouldn't mind maturer themes. I like to play in a serious gameworld, if not a bit dark. I think gratuitous use of gore or sixual themes is just a turn-off to the game. The witcher for instance. The advlt parts were just eyes rollingly bad. And the novelty cards? Like those are going to amuse anyone who is above the age of 18. Please keep the corny peanut-gallery stuff out. At least come at advlt topics in a mature way.

ditto

blood and gore, yes please, not too mutch though
six, no thanks, get a real girl/boyfreind

Like Bloodmoon/Solstheim had

Mature content does not mean Gore and six. Actually I believe games/movies/books that focus too much on that are in fact, immature. I'd really like to see mature themes like corruption, despair, civil war ..... that kind of stuff. I cant take the whole "good vs evil" deal anymore, things are never THAT simple.

Violence and nudity is desirable, but it shouldn't be over the top. Mature content means tough choices and realistic consequences, more than anything else.

Adding gore and six to a game doesn't make it more mature, in my opinion. In fact, when a game tries too hard to be "mature" in this way, it often comes across as sophomoric (Fallout 2 is an example that springs to mind).

What I find more worrying is that we have been conditioned to use phrases like "gore and six" or "six and violence", as if those two things were morally comparable. Oblivion got rerated to M because of the presence of a nvde texture in its BSA files. I find it sad that our moral guardians consider briasts more objectionable than murder. The fact that we tend to view sixuality and homicidal violence as equivalent hints at a great flaw in human morality that transcends any discussion about video games.