ok then, guess ill be giving everyone an IN of 10 to start (unless 9 gives the same amount of skill points, does it round up or save the half point for the next level?). that with the 9 ST everyone has takes up alot of the special points, but there are only a small number of perks that look even remotely useful to each char, so ill have plenty of intense training i can do.

I do wonder, maybe charisma turns out to be really beneficial, and we're mostly just shooting ourselves in the foot by downing it to 1?

i dont see how it could possibly be beneficial

I don't think every character needs a high INT. It makes a difference sure, but not a huge one. INT (5) gives 390 skill points by level 30. INT (10) gives 435 by level 30. But don't forget about tagged skill points and starting skill points, etc. Even starting with the lowest INT (1) gives 290 skill points by level 30, letting you max at least 3 skills.

45 skill points isn't a reason to max out your INT and neglect another area in SPECIAL that you want to be high.

It's just that the lower the INT of your character the more specialized that character is going to need to be to be successful.

The description for INT in New Vegas says it well:

Intelligence

A smart cowboy's good at most anything, from svckin' the poison out of your rattler bite to fixin' your broken wagon axle. Intelligence affects your Science skill, Repair skill, Medicine skill, and number of skill points gained upon leveling up.




Charisma affects "companion nerve". Likely with a 1 CHR your companions won't give a damn about protecting or fighting for you, and will abandon you fairly quickly once slightly injured.

Since Chris Avellone is writing the game and scenarios, (he wrote Planescape:Torment, look it up if you don't know about it) there are likely to be a lot of SPECIAL checks in conversations and quests, and since we know reactions are in for low INT, and there are quests involving performing or performers at some casinos, NPCs will also likely call you on being an ugly dog face with no manners if you dump stat CHR.

In fo3 there was no rounding because the per level skill formula only had whole numbers.

This time it is assumed by us that the dev team were in fact not total ninnies and that an odd intel stat nets different skill point amounts on even and odd levels.

If you are planning on going completely solo and solving everything without any kind of talking, go for it.
If you don't, it grants your followers several strong bonuses and of course has an impact on speech and barter.

"It makes a difference sure, but not a huge one. INT (5)gives 390 skill points by level 30. INT (10) gives 435 by level 30"
not a huge difference? thats another maxed skill right there

well, like i said, there arent many perks that look useful, and some of the useful ones have ridiculous prerequisites, so ill have plenty of chances to raise my special with intense training


ya, i dont really care about speech or barter, theyre not worth the now precious skill points.

and what does it do with the followers? i mostly use them as pack mules so..

Do you have that formula, wintermane? I know for determining initial skill values the FO3 formula could produce fractions, i.e. if you had an odd numbered Luck stat. (STAT * 2) + 2 + (LK/2) = Starting skill value


Another maxed skill? I only count 45 skill points there. That is half a skill. If it lets you get a skill to 100 fine, but it still only half a skill difference.

Also check that post, I edited it to talk about the CHR issue with questions about it still being a dump stat.

ya, still doesnt sound like its worth the points, my companions are just pack mules anyway.

I was talking only of the per level skill formula. I have faith that these devs arnt complete twits.

:shrug: Variety is the spice of life. That is why I am so excited about the fewer skill points this time around. People's characters will be more unique, and be able to do different things that other people's characters can't. Should make for some good discussions after everyone has a play through under their belt.


Ah. I thought you might be. You are referring to the 10 base skill points per level then + 1 for each point in INT up to a max of 20?

And yeah, I have faith that Obsidian has made all the points in INT count as well. I just have no idea how at this point.

but heres the problem, i need to have a combat skill, lockpick, science, and repair maxed. that doesnt leave much points for anything else. they shouldve just kept the amount of skill points you get per level the same as F3, and nerfed them in other ways like getting rid of skill raising perks and only having a very small number of skill books (all of which they did anyway). the only variety ill be able to have with this system is a different main weapon type.

Yup and I have an idea how they might do it. same way they handle weight. Its displayed as a whole number but it isnt.

Precisely what I was thinking. Looking at most of the currently posted builds, they all use REPAIR!!!, one gun skill (guns or energy weapons, sometimes explosives), and Lockpick/science. And almost everyone is forcing high intelligence, and subtracting heavily from luck/charisma.

I wouldn't precisely call that variability..

they could at least not make you have a lockpick/science of 100 to get past very hard stuff, it should be 75 or 80. im sure they could think of something else for 100

Well, see. That's the thing. Not every build needs lockpick or repair or science. Really, if you like a challenge, you don't even need a combat skill, but that is more for people who have played the game multiple times before. Any repair skill is now able to repair all items up to 100% (not to mention items no longer have to be at 100% repair to do max damage or protection), it will just take more duplicates or repair kits, so if you don't max it or improve it, all you are missing out on is a couple of perks and some crafting opportunities.

After you play through one game with lockpick and science maxed, you don't need them for subsequent characters if you don't want. You've seen what's behind every door and read every terminal already.

Think outside the box, try radically different builds. Some of my favorite games in FO1, FO2 were when I stepped out of my comfort zone and tried completely different builds. Staying in the mindset of always needing certain skills every character isn't helpful or true.

I think the new handling of skill points is very beneficial for this actually being an RPG and people being forced to make hard choices about what kind of character they want.


Ah. I didn't know that.


Yeah, I understand people wanting to max Lockpick and Science to see everything, but I don't think most people are fully understanding the changes made to Repair in New Vegas from FO3. It is not nearly as essential to staying equipped and protected now.

"That's the thing. Not every build needs lockpick or repair or science. Really, if you like a challenge, you don't even need a combat skill, but that is more for people who have played the game multiple times before. Any repair skill is now able to repair all items up to 100% (not to mention items no longer have to be at 100% repair to do max damage or protection), it will just take more duplicates or repair kits, so if you don't max it or improve it, all you are missing out on is a couple of perks and some crafting opportunities."
i do need those on every build, these games are about exploration and freedom to me. without max lockpick and science much of that exploration and freedom is gone. challenge? meh, i prefer fun. i just wanna kill stuff. plus in F3 at 100 you had no sway with scopes, if thats still true ill want it at 100 at least for my guns and EW chars.

"After you play through one game with lockpick and science maxed, you don't need them for subsequent characters if you don't want. You've seen what's behind every door and read every terminal already." yes, but if i want that stuff again, which i will. and if i dont remember what the terminals say, which i wont, ill need them on every playthrough.

"Think outside the box, try radically different builds. Some of my favorite games in FO1, FO2 were when I stepped out of my comfort zone and tried completely different builds. Staying in the mindset of always needing certain skills every character isn't helpful or true."
what else is there? speech? barter? lame. again, i just wanna kill stuff and explore. talk is cheap

"I think the new handling of skill points is very beneficial for this actually being an RPG and people being forced to make hard choices about what kind of character they want."
i want a good character...i dont like to not be able to do something because of some stupid number


"Yeah, I understand people wanting to max Lockpick and Science to see everything, but I don't think most people are fully understanding the changes made to Repair in New Vegas from FO3. It is not nearly as essential to staying equipped and protected now."
no, i dont. theres nothing in the vault, google svcks, and there doesnt seem to be much discussion about it here. either way ill need at least 90 for JR, but could you please explain the changes as best you can? and do we know of any NPC's with repair of 100?

First off, I understand where you are coming from and I respect that. How you decide to play is up to you, I was just suggesting alternatives.

And I would be glad to explain the changes to Repair.

Changes to Repair
1) You can repair any item to 100% with ANY skill in Repair. Higher Repair skill just means that repairing will take less duplicate items or repair kits.

2) Repair kits - there are now repair kit items that can be used to repair any item without having a duplicate of it. These can be bought or found around the wasteland.

3) Items' Condition Bars now have a notch in them. While their condition is above this notch, even if the item isn't at 100%, weapons will continue to do max possible damage and armor will continue to provide maximum protection. This means you will not have to constantly repair items to keep them at their best.

All three of those things mean that no character needs a high Repair skill to keep their stuff at mint condition and effectiveness.

Now there are only three advantages to a high Repair skill:
1) Repairs will use less duplicate items or repair kits
2)You will be able to craft more type of ammo and weapons
3)You have access to certain perks you would not otherwise be able to get

And yes, one of your possible companions has a very high Repair skill and can repair your stuff for you.

I demand to know how you know this.

let me guess, raul? do you have to pay him?
so i guess ill just bring em to 90 then for JR. only saves 10 points but every little bit matters.

"I demand to know how you know this. "

some people have the game already, im sure the info is out there.

Obsessively following previews, developer posts on these boards, interviews, and articles on NMA from people who work in stores where the guide is available behind the counter and make notes out of it while they work.

And may I say your avatar is very fitting. :flamed:

The math seems right but it's not including items such as yew bear's charm or bobbleheads, glitches like the ant professor and the raider in bethesda, and accessories i.e. Telsa Armor, Desmonds Glasses... of which we won't know about till the game comes out. I do hope we can't max everything out though, at least not until DLC.

Why, hello Mr. Mailman, or should I say . . . Courier! :gun:

True. We have no idea what quest perks there may be that boost SPECIAL scores or skills, how much change the power armors will have on stats, etc.

BUT, we do know FOR A FACT, that there are no longer Bobbleheads or a an equivalent to them in the game. They are gone, and shall not return. The only thing even close to them is implants that will be available. Implants are only available for the 7 SPECIAL stats, and only 1 for each. Also, word on the street is that they will require the character to have a high END to get implanted with them, and that they will cost a fortune.

Also, clothing and accessories that increase stats and skills are gone. Items equipped on the character no longer have magical enchantments that make him better at Repair because he is wearing greasy overalls, or smarter at Science because he's looking really smart and official in a lab coat.

Maxing everything is out. I worked the math trying to take into account every trick I could think of. It's not possible. Obsidian made sure of it, and it was a specific goal during development for them because of the complaints about how easy it was to become a god in FO3 and how every character eventually became a Jack of All Trades.

"Also, clothing and accessories that increase stats and skills are gone. Items equipped on the character no longer have magical enchantments that make him better at Repair because he is wearing greasy overalls, or smarter at Science because he's looking really smart and official in a lab coat."

why? not even special variants? theres really no point of most of the clothes then. except the select few that look nice.

Don't forget that maxing everything broke the game and you'd be stuck on the level-up screen when you couldn't distribute any more skill points. Happened to me at level 12 or something on one of my play-throughs:/