With the new patch coming out I want to roll a new character. Rather then specialize I think it might be fun to play a character that does not tag any combat skills, but instead use what ever weapon I find. And then start to raise all the combat skills. Melee, unarmed, guns, energy weapons and explosives. Skill points will be really tight, but I think it will be fun.

So has anyone tried this? If so any tips. Are just post your thoughts

9 int + implant, educated, comprehension (for skill books), Tag! perk and Dead Money. That's pretty much all you can do for skill points.

Do tag combat skills though, tagging doesn't mean anything beyond a +15 to that skill.

I figure the character will really be relying on drugs/magic clothes and skill books to pass checks. For instance on a speech check, Party Time Mentats, Meeting People and grimy business suit will give 35 points to speech. Making the highest speech needed as 65. A lot of meta-gaming to get by.

On the subject of tag, I have almost always taged a combat skill. But I have noticed it really does not make that big of a difference.

Take small frame and four eyes. That'll gain you a few extra point for guns and energy, if you can live with the trade-offs. And you might as well tag the weapons skills. It doesn't really do anything like mentioned above, except add those 45 points onto the weapon skill rather than a non weapon skill. Anybody know the max skill point economy with 10 IN, educated, comprehension, all books, TAG!, implants and small frame/four eyes?

-gunny out.

How do you even tag skills? I don't think I've ever done it.

During character creation at the Doc's house, after the questionaire, the game will suggest your tag skills. You can then change them by untagging what the game tagged for you and tagging what you wish. You can also tag a 4th skill by selecting the TAG! perk when abailable.

I checked the wiki and someone there says there's a max of 1099 skill points, but I don't think they added in the extra points for small frame/four eyes. But even without that, using 500 skill points on the combat skills still leaves about 600 skill points for the other 8 skills. You could get the other skills to about 75 in this fashion, but as you said, that would be some pretty hefty metagaming.

-Gunny out.

I whipped up a maxed out character real quick, using the console.

Assuming Small Frame, Four Eyes, all implants, all 10 ranks of Intense Training, Educated and all skill books with Comprehension are used, you can get around 1200 points while wearing glasses and a hat.

EDIT: To clarify, this is at level 35 and with extra skill books found in Dead Money.

It is worth noting that some SPECIAL attributes buff more skills than others, for instance Luck increases every skill.

You won't really need much in the way of meta-gaming, since you will be able to hard-cap 10-11 skills by L35 with a 10 INT, Educated, and all skill books+Comprehension.

I've actually done this, but for a long time in that character's career I felt I was missing out by having my non-combat skills lag. I still do use whatever I come by, but I seldom spend points in all combat skills early on anymore.

One thing I have tried, that I developed while playing FO3, is to pump all skills more or less evenly such that no skill is ever that much higher than the rest. Obviously this means that your initial 3 tag skills will not get any points for the first few levels, but at the same time you get a wider spread of usable weapons earlier on.

As a potential side benefit, the fact you're not pumping a particular combat skill to the max from the beginning means that you have a much more gradual increase in killing power and don't suddenly jump from using, say, a 10mm Pistol and Caravan Shotgun to a Sniper Rifle and Hunting Shotgun the instant you find them, since you will be well below the necessary skill level to use them effectively for quite some time. As a result, combat remains somewhat challenging for significantly longer than it normally would.

Another thing I do that goes with this concept, I only keep one ranged and one CQC weapon on hand after selling, and anything else, including all of its ammo, gets sold off. This keeps me from amassing a veritable armory of stuff to pick and choose from depending on opponent, and also makes it a harder decision to craft custom ammo for a given caliber since I cannot keep it if I sell off that weapon.

One thing you have to keep in mind if you do try my skill point allotment is perk requirements, since some that are normally taken early on will not be available due to high requirements. Jury-Rigging, in particular, will not be available until the late 20s under this system, which is longer than most folks care to wait.

Yeah, I tried this for my kill-'em-all character. Turning the game into a shoot-'em-up meant I didn't miss the non-combat skills at all, and it's great fun just using whatever weapons you come across rather than relying on the three or four favourites you'll use on a regular playthrough. Going from a pool cue to a gauss rifle to a minigun completely on a whim... this approach is definitely a good laugh. I haven't tried a 'proper' character with this sort of build though.

Looking at the skills, I am pretty sure it will not be a problem. But perks are a different story completely. What are the strongest perks for each class? Which ones should I set as a priority?

Where? I went looking and didn't see where this is done.

Click on the pre-tagged skill.

Allright, looking through the wiki and based on my own experience here are what I think are the must have perks:

Melee: Super Slam (Lvl 8, Str 6, Melee 45)
Unarmed: Piercing Strike (Level 12, Unarmed 70), Purifier - (Level 14), Paralyzing Palm(Level 18, Unarmed 70), Slayer (Level 24, Unarmed 90, Agility 7)
Guns: Shotgun Surgeon (Level 6, Guns 45), Hand Loader(Level 6, Repair 70)
Energy Weapons: Laser Commander (Level 22, EW 90)
Explosives: Demo Expert 1to 3 ( Level 6, Explosives 50)

Overall good: Commando, Gunslinger, Strongback, Sniper, Finese, Better Criticals, Action Boy 1, Grim Reapers, Jury Rigging, Educated, Comprehension, Weapon Handling

That is a total of 22 Perks. Hmm, not going to get that! I think the max is 17 perks possible. Unless, I use a perk every level mod. So which ones would you throw out?

That gives me a minimum SPECIAL of
Strength: 6 (Need to hit 10 for all weapons. Power Armor + 1, Implant + 1, Weapon Handling +2)
Perception: 6 (Finese, Better Crits). Rules out 4 Eyes since it drops perception by a point
Endurance: 5 (Strong Back)
Charisma: 1 ( No perk requires Charisma. I have never made a 1 Charisma in FNV before)
Intelligence: 4 To hit Educated.
Agility: 7 ( Maybe base 6 and then +1 through implant)
Luck: 6 for finese

If I go with Agility of 6, that gives me a point allocation of 34. Enough to pump Int to 9 and luck to 7.

So final SPECIAL would be:
S: 6
P: 6
E: 5
C: 1
I: 9
A: 6
L: 7

Also, non combat skill wise here are the targets to hit a 100 in each, accounting for the SPECIAL above:

Speech: Naughty Nightware ( +10), Part Time Mentats ( +5 CH, +10 SKill), Mentats(+2 CH, +4 Skill), Moonshine (+2 CH, +4 Skill), Meeting People (+20 Skill): Need a base score of 52.

Lockpick: Vault 3 Utility Suit (+5 Skill), Skill Mag (+20 Skill), Any Hat (+2 Skill), Mentats (+4 Skill), Party Time Mentats (+2 Skill) = 33 points. Need a base score 67 to open a 100 lock.

Science: Followers Lab Coat (+10), Skill Mag (+20). Need a base score of 70. Since my int is so high I have no other way to boost this skill.

Barter is important, but does not need to hit 100. I think the highest check is 70. A simple Roving Traders hat and Jacket gives +10, Salesman Today is + 20, and like CH you can wrack up a ton of points through booze and drugs (+ 18 points). A base 32 will allow you to hit a 70 barter,

Need to hit Science of 50 EARLY, to get Party Time Mentats. Also, need to join the Followers and raid Vault 3. From a Role playing side - you are a brainy nerf that eventually learns to kick butt! Bet you never heard that one before!


The strength Requirement is the real thorn in my side to using all the weapons! Thinking of taking an intense training at level 2 with STR and then using the Power Armor that gives + 2 STR. Combined with the implant I can skip weapon handling. I do not want to waste a late game perk for Weapon Handling.

So, what do you all thinK?

Max skill points build.
S: 5
P: 6
E: 9
C: 2
I: 9
A: 1
L: 8
Get intelligence implant and educated asap to get 582 skill points
66 skill books + comprehension = 264 SP
The SPECIAL I selected was planned so that I can easily max my SPECIAL with a few items. First using the agility glitch from Dead Money for +9 to Agility, all implants and then using Buffout/Alcohol/PartyTime Mentats, 1st Recon Beret and Lucky Shades is all it takes to keep the SPECIAL maxed.
20+60+40+40+60+40 + 13*5 = 325 skill points from SPECIAL stats
4 tags for another 60

Grand Total of 1231.

You can't quite max SPECIAL without consumables but you can get close
40 to start + 2 for 4 eyes and small frame traits
+9 agility from Dead Money glitch.
+6 implants (no use for Agility implant)
+10 Intense Training
is 67, If you plan on Wearing Power Armor for +1 Strength A hat for +1 perception and Lucky Shades for +1 Luck you can walk around with a maxed SPECIAL.
I don't like those traits or using perks on Intense training so I'd rather horde chems to boost my SPECIAL instead.

Don't forget cowboy.

-Gunny out.

@The Ratslayer - lol, sorry man. I could not imagine always using what the game tagged for me!

@PeterF - They maxed out build sounds overkill. Not sure I would take 10 Intense Training Perks. Plus 1200 skill points is a ton! Had to chuckle when you through in the hat and glass. Yes, yes the extra 8 Skill Points you get from the hat and glasses makes all of the difference! :icecream:

@GeneralMasters: I remember you talking about that playstyle in F3. You still do it here in FNV? I have to say I think NOT tagging a combat skill makes the game more interesting. Or maybe aim for a 50 combat skill around level 12, 75 around level 20 and 100 at level 30. Getting perks at the right level seems to be the hardest part. You don't want "dead" space perks. Perks that are OK, but not that important.

@Lunchbox - Looks good, though I do not like to glitch. On the PC and we perfer the word MOD. Sounds more fancy and less cheat like. :biggrin: Even though it is basically the same thing. But it confirms what I thought - Skill Points are not the problem - it is perks and timing of getting higher combat skills.

@46 ACP - Not sure if I would consider Cowboy a Critical perk. Nice yes, especially since I am going to max out melee. But I would have to drop some other perk. Even moreso now that the Lever Guns are getting a nerf.

Exactly, which is why I made sure to mention that you need to account for perk requirements when compiling the list for any given character if you allot SP this way. It's trickier in F:NV, since some perks that in FO3 only had a level requirement now also have a skill requirement, and a fair number of same have a fairly high skill requirement for their initial level.

I did not use this method for quite a while in F:NV, however repeated experimentation with various builds that raise either Repair, Science, or a combat skill high early on showed me that early access to certain perks heavily tipped the already-fragile combat balance well in favor of the player, so for my latest character I have gone back to trying this. In fact, I just finished a session, and while my overall combat effectiveness is somewhat curtailed in the early going I am not shackled by ammunition or weapon availability limits the way I would be with a more conventional character.

As a side benefit, I am actually having to carefully consider which ammo types to make and how much since my supplies are strictly limited to what I currently have on hand as well as being capped at certain quantities based on weapon type. Since said caps are total rounds, I have to divide them accordingly if I choose to carry multiple types for a given weapon.

Well, the patch is not out yet, but I decided to roll a new character. Here is the SPECIAL.

S: 6
P: 6
E: 5
C: 1
I: 9
A: 5, 6 with Small Frame
L: 8

Tagged: Barter, Speech and Repair
Traits: Small Frame and Kamakizee


Just hit level 4. Cleared out Good Springs and Primm. I have a 25 in all weapon skills(Except Unarmed which is at 23), 25 Speech, Barter, Science and Lockpick

Using the following weapons: Lead Pipe, Bladed Gauntlet, 9MM, Varmiant Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Incinerator and Dynamite. Everything so far has been easy and a lot of fun. Of all the weapons the Bladed Gauntlet is probably the weakest. Lead Pipe just seems to blow it away. Even not meeting the Skill Requirements for the weapon.

Plan on getting the following implants: Str, Int, Ag, Luck and perception.

Perks: Intense training - Str at level 2 and educated at level 4. Planning on Comprehension next.

I want to hit a base score of 8 strength so I can use any weapon with Power Armor. Plus my carry weight is high since I am carrying multiple weapons.

@GeneralMasters - I would agree that not tagging a combat skill, nor racing down one combat skill tree makes the game a lot more interesting. I would not follow the weapon restrictions - it is more fun I think to carry a bunch of stuff.