Cider! Why is it that your against 99% of the things people say on this forum.

...what is wrong with using a term wrong when it's your main argument point? Do I even need to point out the obvious?

I'm not using it wrong, and at this point you are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

No you are using it wrong, being in a state of chaos means to be in a state of disorganization and confusion, unless you cause it on yourself then no, the person who caused it is not in the state of chaos.

But you're not literally dead. It's the same with your definition of chaotic: you're involved in the chaos you created, but your mind and actions aren't in a state of chaos. You're an organized person in a disorganized world.

This thread makes me want to...

CREATE CHAOS

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541831196172416275/98E01C66524987B56DA36A36DD29F5BA2B48C580/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541829948861676275/19C82937DFB1FE969438DFD8F73D4BF31EADD0EC/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541829948861654372/318D938AC7520CE032B3E7C004F3DF73406DB92D/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/541829948861634576/3FE2635234C587C8CCD50773B354EB9DEC1D22FF/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/ZoDiaC91/MotierreconspiracyDremoreRefute_zps1c96fb1e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/ZoDiaC91/Dawnguardrave_zps8851e4f1.jpg

This only works if I said you are literally chaos itself.

Chaos= state of disorganization and confusion. Chaotic=being in a state of disorganization and confusion

So I can say chaotic is being in a state of chaos because chaos is "disorganization and confusion".

Seriously, this is getting really ridiculous.

The point is unless the dremora made themselves disorganized and confused they aren't in a state of chaos because they aren't disorganized or confused.

They cause it, so they are apart of it. Not to mention their plane of existence, the Dead Lands is completely chaotic. As most people judging from the poll agree.

edit: Aaand the discussion finally came into full circle.

So everytime a Daedra causes chaos they confuse and disorganize themselves, that's the point you're making.

Sure, but we have to consider things like the character alignments of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticEvil, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticNeutral, and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChaoticGood. None of these fit into the literal definition of "Chaotic" that Cider! is pounding on about, but that doesn't stop the adjective from being used to describe them, because words are not riveted into their most literal definition. Same reason why Cider!'s definition of "Chaos" and "Chaotic" both have multiple definitions, including an obsolete one.

No, they confuse and disorganize others, and they are apart of that chaotic state.

THIS

In which case, the only true chaotic Daedric Prince is Sanguine because he is chaos incarnate as Hevnoraak explained earlier

But they are the ones in the state of chaos, meaning they are disorganized and confused.


Exactly, saying Mehrunes Dagon wasn't organized in anything he did is wrong because he was, even the Oblivion crisis thus by being organized he was never in a state of chaos.

Think I'll pin this to the op.

I wouldn't consider the fanon definition of chaos and chaotic being the english definition.

Thank the All-maker this post appeared. I had begun writing a rather lengthy post on those three alignments. You've saved me a bit of time.

They aren't fanon.

So are you one of those "There aren't any dragons in Skyrim! Those are WYVERNS!" people?

Glad to be of help.

The problem is while those may work for D&D they don't work for TES or real life, I hate how people think they do but they don't.


No but the so called "character morality system" is a D&D thing and belongs to stay there because it really has no place being considered the character morality system for all things fictional like people think they do

Why, because it goes against what you're saying so strongly?

No because while it's an alright system for DnD and adds charm to the very mechanic-oriented game it does NOT work for everything.

So you can accept a creature being labeled as a dragon when it more closely fits the more literal definition of a wyvern, but can't accept adjectives being applied to people/creatures/gods unless they fit the most literal definitions of those adjectives?

Remember, I wasn't talking about applying those alignments to anything in TES. I was merely pointing out that there are things described as "Chaotic" that don't fit the literal definition you were posting and basing as the reason Daedra can't be considered "Chaotic."

Pretty much yes.

Makes me wonder if Cider! realises how much early TES was influenced by D&D too (Morrowind and early).