So, the Daedric Prince of Destruction and Change, Revolution and so on. Is he chaotic? I think he obviously is, but some apparently disagree, because the definition doesn't say chaotic is causing chaos But being in a chaotic state. Yet if you cause chaos, are you not among that state of chaos? Mehrunes Dagon does that to mortals, and even in his realm, he and his daedra although having a hierarchy still exist for the purpose of causing war, destruction, suffering and strife.

"The Deadlands are a Daedric realm of Oblivion created and ruled over by the Daedric Prince of Destruction, Mehrunes Dagon. The embodiment of its creator's sphere, the dimension is fraught with natural disasters and destructive change. The realm is covered by an ocean of lava, scattered with scorched volcanic islands and ruined structures. Many lesser Daedra roam the realm freely, but Dremora dominate the hierarchy. Very little flora grow in the realm's hostile environment. Burnt grass and dead trees dot the landscape, while Bloodgrass, aggressive Harrada Roots and poisonous Spiddal Plants grow abundantly in the charred soil."

As my awesome Dragon Priest friend Hevnoraak said, it's literally a chaotic place.

And what of the rest of the daedra in general? Like sheogorath? His daedra may have order over the mad citizens of New Sheo, but the land itself is completely chaotic, not to mention they continuously have wars amongst each other to gain his affection.

So are the daedra chaotic in general? Would you agree that it is merely different levels of chaos that they cause? And if not all of them would you say most? They are the embodiment of change and change often leads to chaos.

Most of them are chaotic with a few exceptions, like Mephala for example.She has a clear purpose unlike the other Daedra like Mehrune for example who i imagine gets up in the morning everyday and just does random violent [censored].

Actually except for Mephala i cant think of any who are not chaotic.

Definition of chaos and chaotic

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chaos
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chaotic

Definition of order

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/order

the dremora

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dremora

The Daedra

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra

what really kills your claim that all Daedra are chaotic is the fact that we have the previous god of order Jyggalag was/is a Daedroth and than we have the current god of order Peryite who is also a Daedroth.

Yet Jygallag caused great chaos in Shivering Isles, and Peryte's disease caused chaos among those people in the dwemer ruin. They're apart of the chaos because they started it. They are the beginning.

chaotic and chaos



cha·os (ks)
n.
1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
2. A disorderly mass; a jumble: The desk was a chaos of papers and unopened letters.
3. often Chaos The disordered state of unformed matter and infinite space supposed in some cosmogonic views to have existed before the ordered universe.
4. Mathematics A dynamical system that has a sensitive dependence on its initial conditions.
5. Obsolete An abyss; a chasm.
[Middle English, formless primordial space, from Latin, from Greek khaos.]
cha·otic (-tk) adj.
cha·oti·cal·ly adv.

The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ?2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
cha?ot?ic (ke???t ?k)

adj.
1. completely confused or disordered.
2. Physics, Math. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of chaos: a chaotic attractor.

as I've pointed as many times before, causing chaos =/= chaotic.

As I've pointed out, if you cause it, you're apart of it.

Jyggalag disagrees.

Again, is that the definition in the dictionary? NOPE.

Yes it is. It says "being in a state of chaos." If you cause chaos, you are a part of that state of chaos.

This is more semantics.

You can't really say All Daedra are Chaotic. Nor can you say all Daedra are not chaotic. Not all Daedra are the same. They are all extremes and some of these extremes have a greater tendency for chaos, some are subtle, and some are not chaotic.

Daedra for the most part do tend to cause chaos.

Not all daedra are chaotic. Sure they cause chaos, but in their nature, they aren't chaotic. The main 3 who are chaotic in nature are Mehrunes Dagon, Sanguine, and Sheogorath.

No, that's not what it means. "Being in a state of chaos" means to be in a state of confusion and disorganization.


Sheogorath has law and order in his realm so he isn't chaotic in origin.

also pointing out this should be in lore or general since it's not skyrim related.

Sainguine is an interesting example of "chaotic" there...

I guess when you wake up ****faced, next to a goat and a couple of Hagravens, a couple dozen bottles of Daedric whine, and skooma... Yeah, I'd say you are in "a condition or place of great disorder or confusion. A disorderly mass; a jumble"

lol

Seriously Colonel, by your logic then everyone who has suffered a disaster and were in the chaotic state afterwards were the cause of it.

Change =/= chaos. Destruction =/= chaos.

If you cause death, are you dead yourself?

Your organized actions can confuse other people and create chaos. You can methodically disrupt organized activities and destroy order. Your actions aren't chaotic, but their results are.

I do not know if Daedra are chaotic. They are change, and they certainly seem to create chaos more often than not. If you understand chaotic as "related to chaos", then they probably are - but I don't think that's the commonly used definition.

Just going to say that pounding on the dictionary ad nauseum isn't really the best argument in the world, you know?

It's better then ignoring facts.

The majority of the Daedric Princes embody change, with the exception of the likes of Jyggalag who is more Anuic in nature.

I would suggest that they all have the propensity to cause chaos, and in large amounts if they so desire, but only a handful I would consider actually chaotic by nature.

Except I said nothing like that.

That example doesn't work. The definition says "being in a state of chaos". You cause it. You're apart of that state. Being dead means you're no longer alive.

I'm not. As Hevnoraak said, it's semantics.

I think this is the most accurate way of putting this. Nothing suggests all Daedra are chaotic in nature. Saying so would paint them as inherently evil, which would be false. Their extremities tend to cause or instigate chaos. Thus the association, but this doesn't define them as a whole as chaotic.

It's more a cause and effect rather than an inherent goal.

again being in a state of chaos means you are in a state of disorganization and confusion so yes, what I said is exactly the logic you are using and if using the literal definition of the word is semantics then we should disregard english all together as semantics.

I said those who cause chaos are a part of it, making them chaotic.

I did not say if you are in it, you caused chaos. There is a difference.

If one's arguing about a definition of a word, there's no better argument than quoting a dictionary.

Yeah, I know it's not really the same situation. But that's how your argument sounded to me: if you cause something, you are it. Which isn't always true.

But you are using the term "in a state of chaos" wrong.

If you want to apply it to my argument you could say that if you killed someone, you're apart of their death.

What is wrong with that? Being apart of it is being in it.