As a player, these are two of my favourite gods. Mainly because I usually play as an evil character, and in my opinion these two Daedra are the most sinister. It makes sense that I would do favours for these guys as I enjoy the feeling of being evil in a fantasy world. However, we all know that cults such as the Mythic Dawn have existed. While they were promised special rewards for helping Mehrunes Dagon invade Tamriel, I highly doubt that he would stay true to his word. I'd like to see if anyone disagrees with me, but I can't help seeing a similarity to Satan in that regard.

Now onto Molag Bal. This makes less sense to me. King of [censored], slavery.. Harvester of souls. Does this sound like a fellow who appreciates a favour? Yet there are those who assisted him in his attempt to merge Coldharbour with Tamriel.

I want to know how a citizen of Tamriel would come to worship these two Daedra. Unlike Boethia, or Mephala they have not benefited Tamriel in any way shape or form. Who could be so blind as to worship these gods who clearly offer nothing in return for their worshipers deeds. If anything, all it does is ensure you a horrific afterlife in the Deadlands/Coldharbour.

Thoughts? I am by no means a lore master, but this subject intrigues me.

They offer you rewards and powers. thats all to it.

I think there's a bit more to it than that. A worshipers afterlife will be miserable.

Some people like to suffer.

Plus, lots of Molag bals followers are probably trying to become vampires so(Or they are vampires already, who knows), they'd take longer to die haha.

I imagine most of them are just fooled or blinded by the rewards that they dont care where they go in the afterlife. really we dont know a whole lot about coldharbour anyways. who's to say that they feel anything there?

At least in the case of Mehrunes Dagon, he governs over several spheres more than destruction. The UESP says that his spheres are destruction, change, revolution, energy and ambition. All of these can in some sense be viewed as positive. That Mehrunes happens to be a bad egg sometimes may be irrelevant for the people worshipping him, since they need him badly in bad times.

As for Molag Bal, it's harder for me to understand. I would say that his worshippers either are cynical nihilists, or that they think that they somehow "fend him off" by worshipping him.

I get the impression that Mankar Camoran's cult appeared to be some sorta glorification of the Dawn Era, under the belief that when Mehrunes Dagon conquers Nirn, he would bring it back to that time, just like when Lorkhan had his rightful place or whatever. His preaching confuses me, but he had actual doctrine beyond "Mehrunes Dagon is gonna give you power if you help him ruin everything".

Mehrunes Dagon's spheres are very useful to political activists, disinherited sons, and the like. Molag Bal aids those who would seek to gain an upper hand over others through evil means.

Would anyone dispute my opinion that Mehrunes Dagon and Molag Bal are the most evil Daedra?

Mankar Camoran himself used Dagon's power to "cut his nymix back into a versioned Dawn", essentially recreating himself in his own image. Destruction is just Transformation, after all, and Mankar wanted to Transform the entire Mundus.

Yes I would dispute that those are the most evil as evil is subjective. All Daedric Princes have their own malevolent sides as well as the Divines.

And to your other question as to why anyone would follow those two Princes. I'll give you a real life examples:

Followers of Molag Bal could be compared to modern Satanist. They believe satan is the bad guy but still follow him. Sure there will be "hell to pay" but they like the the shock, power, and perceived freedom that comes along with it.

Followers of Dagon could be compared with modern Luciferians. They believe that Lucifer is the good guy trying to over come the bad guy. Some believe that Lucifer is the light and the holy books were written by the bad guys. Some believe that Jesus and the devil are the same guy and therefore the "good guy".

If it happens in real life, why wouldn't it happen in a fantasy fictional work?

Highly volatile (In the case of Dagon) and extremely dangerous, but not necessarily evil assuming what they're respective spheres are aiming at. Revolution also falls under Dagon's, and can often times have some justification for it. Bal's a harder case, but keeping a more dangerous fringe element under your heel can at times be beneficial to the world at large.

There's no reward great enough for me to ever get involved with a "King of [censored]". Nothing. Not even the ability to have any woman I wanted. I'm sensitive about my [censored], and not too trustworthy when it comes to it, either.

This "Are Daedra evil?" debate seems to come up every week or so. I say some certainly are, based on pragmatical and practical definitions of "evil" (if you define evil in such a way that nothing and nobody is evil, then clearly you have defined it in a rather impractical way) and Molag Bal is among them.

As for anybody would worship him... well, you can always get some people to do just about everything. You can find some people for whatever activity you can imagine. But I do think Molag Bal has probably very few dedicated worshippers. I think he mostly relies on fear: That people might pray to him so that he stays away, as far away as possible.

OP, how do you feel about Mephala? This is a Daedric Prince whose sphere is usually defined as "six and secret murder," but she is also hugely responsible for the formation and social order of an entire nation, a very creative thing. I imagine that even Molag Bal could twist his message enough to bring about an apparently-useful (or at least viable) society. Whether or not I would want to live in it, or whether or not I would want to make the deal that leads to it, is of course another matter.

If I were to define "evil" as "a cop-out word that people use when they don't want or feel the need to explain the real reasons that they don't like someone," would that count as "nobody is evil"? Because that's exactly how I view it: A word that doesn't apply to nobody, but rather to everybody, based entirely on personal perspective.

That does seem unpractical, too, yes. Why define a (relatively every day, i.e. not academical or in other ways very specific) word in such a way that you'd never use it?

As I said in the OP, she may be evil, but she also helped found a nation as you say, and is a patron to an entire race. She does some good. I love her personally.

Molag Bal on the other hand....

Mehrunes Dagon made good on his promise. The faithful went to paradise. The few that had doubts in their heart, or showed disloyalty at the last minute? They wound up in the lava.

Molag Bal's gift to the weak: http://i.imgur.com/DvhaHma.jpg

Those humble enough to acknowledge their mortal faults and submit themselves to Molag Bal, become the hunter of mortal men. He rips fear out of them.

Yes, because evil does not exist. Nor can alien immortal divine deities be defined by it. You can perceive them as evil, but they are not evil. Nothing is evil.

Good point. I'm starting to remember Cameron's paradise and how his true followers were rewarded. Molag Bal gifts the weak with vampirism, if one desires strength Molag Bal will give it to them. Interesting.. some very goods points here.

I disagree about the lack of evil in this world though.. If we deny evil, then we allow Saddam Hussein to teabag our dead corpses. If one were to commit murder and then say 'evil dosen't exist, we're all evil,' then that would be an excuse. A terrible excuse.

Yep. Molag Bal toughens up the weak, and instills modesty in the strong.

...

But it hurts though... But depending on whom you ask, worth every agonizing second. Because if they survive, the troubles of mortal life no longer concern them, for they are now at an apex of their own right. Rather it be brute physicality, or even mental fortitude. Bal toughens you up good. You survive him, everything else is a joke.

I always assumed that Serana and her family were [censored]. That's what she makes it sound like.

Yes it makes them strong in life, but weak in death. Screams Satan in my opinion.

Interestingly enough, I do my best to avoid the word "evil," so it appears we're on the same page--we just have different opinions about the page we're on.

To some people, personal power is "good" enough to override the value of all other considerations. That too is a matter of perspective and opinion; obviously, if you're the one being crushed by someone else's personal power, you're going to be less pleased about it than the person whose power is doing the crushing. Let's remember, we certainly hated Hussein, but we practically worship other power-hungry warlords in history, with the only difference being the level of technology available for their use, the distance of time between us and them, and the level of importance they have for our society.

Yup in a mod interesting npcs you have this discussion with a Khajiit monk who worships both daedra and aedra when it came to discussing molag bal since I was playing an altmer I was wondering why the hell he would worship daedra since they are evil bla bla bla. He simply said with Molag Bal weakness is not a virtue and in the world of tamriel this is true. If you want to survive you can't be weak and as Hev said following molag bal you would be able to take almost everything Tamriel throws at you.

Then he said with Dagon he represents revolution and ambition and with the stormcloak rebellion dagon's sphere is there and if you are against a corrupt regime and outright combat will not work mephala and Boethiah are there.

The reason why most consider aedra good in my opinion is that we can't really talk or interact with them like daedra and considering how talos was made overall I think he is a jerk at times just like daedra can be.

Shouldn't be any surprise. His name is probably a play off of Molech and Baal.

Wow. I just looked them up on wikipedia. Molech is a nasty piece of work! Good lord.