Is Mehrunes Dagon inspired by Shiva? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:06 am

Hi,

Not to get too into a religion debate here, but I'm a Hindu, and I've noticed many similarities between Mehrunes Dagon and the Hindu god http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva. Let's compare them:

Both are gods of destruction
The religions both belong to involve legends about ages, called kalpas
Both appear as beings with multiple sets of arms

I'm very sure that there was some inspiration here, can anyone confirm it? Or is it just an elaborate, interesting coincidence?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:55 pm

Possibly a coincidence. Most gods are similar. I mean, Goidelic Paganism has a goddess of water with exactly the same name and sphere as the Hindu god Danu. The two are related, but that's the sort of similarity you'd expect if the two things were based on each other (which, in that case, they are). Between Mehrunes Dagon and Shiva, there is no such similarity.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:01 am

Hi,

Not to get too into a religion debate here, but I'm a Hindu, and I've noticed many similarities between Mehrunes Dagon and the Hindu god http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva. Let's compare them:

Both are gods of destruction
The religions both belong to involve legends about ages, called kalpas
Both appear as beings with multiple sets of arms

I'm very sure that there was some inspiration here, can anyone confirm it? Or is it just an elaborate, interesting coincidence?

I noticed this...the first time I saw him a long time ago. :snicker:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:32 am

I noticed that, but I think Mehrunes has a much more demonic thing to him.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:18 pm

No, he's obviously inspired by http://www.stampede-entertainment.com/monstermakers/wallpaper/wp-goro-1-m.jpg.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:27 pm

No, he's obviously inspired by http://www.stampede-entertainment.com/monstermakers/wallpaper/wp-goro-1-m.jpg.

Ha! Mortal Kombat.

I dunno. Mehrunes Dagon could've been inspired by this http://popularsymbolism.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/sheeva-mortalkombat-big.jpg.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:07 am

Goro's hairstyle is more like Malacath's however.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:48 am

...Malacath has hair?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:39 am

...Malacath has hair?

Hmm you're right.

Now that I go back and examine the evidence, he's bald as a cue ball. I thought he had a long topknot for some reason. I was thinking of Gortwog probably.

edit: Actually http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Image:OB-Img-ShrineofBoethia.JPG has the topknot too. And judging by this screen it's not hard to see where the Tribunal get their lightly armored, loin clothed fashion sense from. Afterall it was this Prince who taught them proper fashion.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:47 am

I kind of thought Mephala was similar to Shiva in appearance.

Mephala:
http://www.uesp.net/w/images/thumb/600px-OB-Img-ShrineofMephala.JPG

Shiva:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Sivakempfort.jpg/450px-Sivakempfort.jpg

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:42 pm

I think it i a very good comparision and very well could be true.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:13 pm

Are you Hindu, or did you play FF Tactics, then decide to go to Wikipedia for "knowledge" enough to compare them? I don't see much other than those three you listed, I do see more similarity to another TES god, but I wont tell who. I would expect a Hindu to make a better case.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:28 am

Okay, so they aren't that similar in all aspects, but there's just enough to make you wonder. I mainly posted this to provoke some thoughts and see if I could get any official word on the matter. Pardon me if I got anything wrong or missed anything, I'm not a Shaiva (the Shiva-centric branch of Hinduism), I'm a Ganapatya, the sect that worships Ganesh, so I'm not as familiar with the other gods.

And yes, Mephala is a bit reminiscent of Shiva, but I'd say she's more akin to Kali, which creates an interesting Morag Tong/Thugees anologue, though the Oblivion Dark Brotherhood is more Thugee-like in my opinion.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:17 am

I insist: http://www.imperial-library.info/cgi-bin/summon.cgi?daedra=meh. (If you see Sheogorath, hit F5 to reload.)

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:26 am

I mainly posted this to provoke some thoughts and see if I could get any official word on the matter.

It did provoke me. Mehrunes Dagon is Goro.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:27 am

I noticed that, but I think Mehrunes has a much more demonic thing to him.

Probably because despite the whole "Daedra are not demons!" and "Oblivion is not hell!" argument, Bethesda did seem to try to invoke a few parallels to demons as we usually think of them with Daedra, especially noticable with Mehruns Dagon and his servants, just look at Dremora, how could anyone say they're NOT supposed to look distinctly "demonic".

Anyway, I don't doubt that the Daedra are partially inspired by real world pantheons, I could imagine that Shiva could have been one of the sources for inspiration on Mehruns Dagon, but beyond the notable parallels, I don't doubt that there are other sources of inspiration for this particular prince as well.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:07 pm

Many things are based on Mythologies and Believes.... I don't believe it's coincidence... They have to get it from somewhere.... Like.... There is in the Norse Mythology Nine worlds.... One of them is Svartalfenheim.. Home to the Dark Elves and most of the time Dwarves..... Would it be a coincidence that Morrowind was both home to the Dark Elves and Dwarves... Mayby some think it's a coincidense... I don't think that.. XD ANd as the one above me sais... It would be more a source of inspiration...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:55 am

I think the conflict between the Ashlanders and the Great Houses is based on the conflict between Gaels and Scots, myself.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:59 pm

Many things are based on Mythologies and Believes.... I don't believe it's coincidence... They have to get it from somewhere.... Like.... There is in the Norse Mythology Nine worlds.... One of them is Svartalfenheim.. Home to the Dark Elves and most of the time Dwarves..... Would it be a coincidence that Morrowind was both home to the Dark Elves and Dwarves... Mayby some think it's a coincidense... I don't think that.. XD ANd as the one above me sais... It would be more a source of inspiration...

Dwarves is not the right word to use... Dwemers are as much Mer (Elves) as the other Mers (Elves).
But I agree that it's probably so that many mythologies from Games and Stories are based on Real Life Mythos and religions/believes.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:29 am

I think the conflict between the Ashlanders and the Great Houses is based on the conflict between Gaels and Scots, myself.

You could also make the case that Vvardenfell is Roman-occupied Judea. Both had a Temple with its own, separate priesthood and enforcement authority. Both had Zealots (in MW's case, the Sixth House crazies assassinating Imperials). Both looked for a messiah who would drive out the Empire.

If I remember right, multiple arms on a Hindu religious statue indicates power. I can see why that would be used for Mehrunes Dagon also.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:54 am

An interesting theory, I believe Mehrunes Dagon was a cross between many real world gods and beliefs that moulded into one. Remember his followers are cultists, Keep researching.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:21 am

Probably because despite the whole "Daedra are not demons!" and "Oblivion is not hell!" argument, Bethesda did seem to try to invoke a few parallels to demons as we usually think of them with Daedra, especially noticable with Mehruns Dagon and his servants, just look at Dremora, how could anyone say they're NOT supposed to look distinctly "demonic".

The Oblivion version of Dremora look like Darth Maul from Star Wars to me. Actually, i would wish Bethesda would go away from the whole demon thing, i dont like it.

But does annyone know if they originaly actually was inspired by demons?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:41 am

Well I'm going to say something. Yes I believe the Daedra are inspired by demons, but you know something? Not everyone believes demons are %100 evil. It's mostly Christains who think that, but take Wiccans for example. They rever Lilith, who was the first wife of Adam who became a demon. She has a hatred for men and tries to kill them as infants, but she's also good to women and helps them. Also I know Japanese demons (or oni) are completely different from western demons, but in their beliefs some of their oni can be good too.

So yes, I do believe the Daedra are based off demons, but I don't think they're based off the Christain views of demons all being evil, I think they're based more off the beliefs that demons have a good and bad side, just like people, but because of their powers they are different from humans.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:41 am

The Oblivion version of Dremora look like Darth Maul from Star Wars to me. Actually, i would wish Bethesda would go away from the whole demon thing, i dont like it.

But does annyone know if they originaly actually was inspired by demons?

But the Daedra are the demons of Nirn. They are manifestations of the unsavory aspects of mortal character. Alternatively, they are aliens from outer space.

Obviously, though, they don't have to be portrayed as Satan vs. Crystal Dragon Jesus, however.

The Duke of Scamps said, 'I was summoned by Lord Dagon, master of the foul waters and fire, and I have brought the pennants of my seven legions.'

The major domo, whose head was a bubble of foul water and fire, bowed low, so that the head of the Duke of Scamps became enclosed in his own.

He saw the first pennant, which commanded a legion of grim warriors who could die at least twice.

He saw the second pennant, which commanded a legion of winged bulls and the emperor of color that rode upon each.

He saw the third pennant, which commanded a legion of inverted gorgons, great snakes whose scales were the faces of men.

He saw the fourth pennant, which commanded a legion of double-crossed lovers.

He saw the fifth pennant, which commanded a legion of jumping wounds looking to hop onto a victim.

He saw the sixth pennant, which commanded a legion of abridged planets.

He saw the seventh pennant, which commanded a legion of armored winning moves.

MK has said:

The word "hell" exists in TES. Search on TIL-- it's everywhere.

Wulfharth "shouts" people into Hell.

Akavir has Snow Hell.

Red Mountain is known as the gate to hell.

Cyrus in Redguard even says "I'll see you in Hell."

"I'll see you in Oblivion" just sounds [censored].

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:30 pm

But the Daedra are the demons of Nirn. They are manifestations of the unsavory aspects of mortal character. Alternatively, they are aliens from outer space.

But couldn't that also be considered one of Sanguine's spheres? Also, Sanguine looks like a demon.

http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/dae_sanguine.jpg