Merchants are dead, should I start over? : V

» Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:13 am

This is kind of a weird topic, but somehow the Warmaiden, Drunken Horseman, General goods vendor, lady outside warmaiden have all gone missing on my 60 hour playthrough file, and it's really annoying me. It stinks knowing that I should be able to buy/sell from tons of people in whiterun, and have a house in the midst of it.

Is there a good solution to this? Start over? What would you do?

This probably happened because I decided to take on all of the Whiterun guards at once and assassinate them/hit and run. It was fun, but not sure if it was worth it in hindsight...

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:46 am

If you're playing PC I'd say find a console command to revive them, now if you're on Console like me, other than moving on to another town, the only suggestion I have is to make a new character(s). If you do go on to another town, I suggest Riften if you're the sneaky / evil sort, otherwise I suggest Solitude.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:31 am

This is kind of a weird topic, but somehow the Warmaiden, Drunken Horseman, General goods vendor, lady outside warmaiden have all gone missing on my 60 hour playthrough file, and it's really annoying me. It stinks knowing that I should be able to buy/sell from tons of people in whiterun, and have a house in the midst of it.

Is there a good solution to this? Start over? What would you do?

This probably happened because I decided to take on all of the Whiterun guards at once and assassinate them/hit and run. It was fun, but not sure if it was worth it in hindsight...

Theoretically other NPCs are supposed to take over those merchants shops eventually. At least that was part of the Radiant AI package we were promised before release. Someone else will have to confirm whether this actually happens or not.

Also, there are other towns with other merchants and houses to buy, so you could always just pack up your character and move.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:55 pm

Yeah, the owner of the General Goods store in Whiterun has been missing for several in-game weeks and I fear he may have died.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:20 pm

This is kind of a weird topic, but somehow the Warmaiden, Drunken Horseman, General goods vendor, lady outside warmaiden have all gone missing on my 60 hour playthrough file, and it's really annoying me. It stinks knowing that I should be able to buy/sell from tons of people in whiterun, and have a house in the midst of it.

Is there a good solution to this? Start over? What would you do?

This probably happened because I decided to take on all of the Whiterun guards at once and assassinate them/hit and run. It was fun, but not sure if it was worth it in hindsight...

Lol your an idiot. killed all the guards and then wondered why people in the town started dying.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:40 pm

Lol your an idiot. killed all the guards and then wondered why people in the town started dying.

And you're an idiot for thinking that the games AI is somehow compensating for dead guards and saying, "Okay, now that the guards are dead random NPCs should start dieing because of their lack of protection."

I hate forums.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:20 pm

Lol your an idiot. killed all the guards and then wondered why people in the town started dying.

The merchants probably left because they feared for their safety with no law. Pretty realistic if you ask me. If I had a shop somewhere and all the cops got wiped out in the town and there would be no more cops to protect the town, it's pretty obvious that's dangerous and I want to get out of there.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:45 pm

If you're playing PC I'd say find a console command to revive them, now if you're on Console like me, other than moving on to another town, the only suggestion I have is to make a new character(s). If you do go on to another town, I suggest Riften if you're the sneaky / evil sort, otherwise I suggest Solitude.

Reviving only works immediately after the NPC has died, otherwise you are just reviving a body that has no scripting anymore.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:20 pm

And you're an idiot for thinking that the games AI is somehow compensating for dead guards and saying, "Okay, now that the guards are dead random NPCs should start dieing because of their lack of protection."

I hate forums.

I've experienced several dragon attacks on various towns, it's quite possible that if all of the guards are dead and a dragon invades, atleast some of the townspeople are screwed.

Big Iron on His Hip brings up a good point too.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:11 pm

Perhaps Radiant AI is in the works here and they went off looking for berries and ran across some bandits.

Doubtful, but would be cool.

But ya, start over if you enjoy your stay in Whiterun. I know I would as I like Whiterun and it's inhabitants. Not too big, not too small.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:27 pm

I've experienced several dragon attacks on various towns, it's quite possible that if all of the guards are dead and a dragon invades, atleast some of the townspeople are screwed.

Yeah except that WHITERUN is a town that doesn't actually exist in the "wild" (ie. you have to open the door and go "into" whiterun) so there's no possible way for dragons to attack the interior of whiterun. At least there hasn't been a single attack in whiterun in my 70 hours of playing.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:32 pm

And you're an idiot for thinking that the games AI is somehow compensating for dead guards and saying, "Okay, now that the guards are dead random NPCs should start dieing because of their lack of protection."

I hate forums.

The A.I. is more intelligent than you think. Everyone in the town noticed when I went streaking in Solitude and the clothing store lady yelled at me and told me to get out until I had proper clothing.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:15 pm

And you're an idiot for thinking that the games AI is somehow compensating for dead guards and saying, "Okay, now that the guards are dead random NPCs should start dieing because of their lack of protection."

I hate forums.

I didn't say that is why they are dying fool. Believe it or not, the NPC's actually NEED protection. I have seen thieves robbing shops on several occassions in locations throughout skyrim, and NPCs will attack and kill each other, I have seen it before.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:28 pm

And you're an idiot for thinking that the games AI is somehow compensating for dead guards and saying, "Okay, now that the guards are dead random NPCs should start dieing because of their lack of protection."

I hate forums.

Yeah, that's the idea....................idiot

As was said before, there are thieves, bandits, and dangerous animals that will attack towns. If there are no guards then there is no protection. NPC will KILL each other in this game. It is possible that there was a glitch and they all just went bye bye. Most likely, they were all killed.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:32 pm

Yeah except that WHITERUN is a town that doesn't actually exist in the "wild" (ie. you have to open the door and go "into" whiterun) so there's no possible way for dragons to attack the interior of whiterun. At least there hasn't been a single attack in whiterun in my 70 hours of playing.

PLAY MORE!

There is no way, really? Tell that to the dragon that attacked the middle of town in Windhelm while I was there, and which me and the guards had to slay.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:47 pm

I didn't say that is why they are dying fool. Believe it or not, the NPC's actually NEED protection. I have seen thieves robbing shops on several occassions in locations throughout skyrim, and NPCs will attack and kill each other, I have seen it before.

Are you talking about that scripted murder in Markath? Because other than that I haven't seen a single NPC doing anything other than their daily routines of mindlessly walking around town and to and from their "jobs".

@Cascinova

Yeah so have I.... Just not inside of WHITERUN. That first little town you get to in the main quest has been attacked like 30 times, so has Solitude. But I have *never* seen a dragon inside the town of whiterun.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:34 pm

The town is probably scripted for the merchants to flee the town when all the guards are killed. For realism and consequences of promoting lawlessness. Skyrim isn't exactly the suburbs.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:46 pm

Yeah except that WHITERUN is a town that doesn't actually exist in the "wild" (ie. you have to open the door and go "into" whiterun) so there's no possible way for dragons to attack the interior of whiterun. At least there hasn't been a single attack in whiterun in my 70 hours of playing.

I've had dragons attack Riften and that is enclosed.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:38 pm

Maybe they're dying from .... blood draining creatures...

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:47 am

The merchants probably left because they feared for their safety with no law. Pretty realistic if you ask me. If I had a shop somewhere and all the cops got wiped out in the town and there would be no more cops to protect the town, it's pretty obvious that's dangerous and I want to get out of there.

This is kind of what I was thinking. It's inconvenient to be missing merchants, but on the other hand it's decent for immersion. I scared off my neighbors, lol

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:12 pm

I have seen thieves robbing shops on several occassions in locations throughout skyrim, and NPCs will attack and kill each other

This is true. This kind of thing even happened back in Oblivion.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:36 am

This is kind of a weird topic, but somehow the Warmaiden, Drunken Horseman, General goods vendor, lady outside warmaiden have all gone missing on my 60 hour playthrough file, and it's really annoying me. It stinks knowing that I should be able to buy/sell from tons of people in whiterun, and have a house in the midst of it.

Is there a good solution to this? Start over? What would you do?

This probably happened because I decided to take on all of the Whiterun guards at once and assassinate them/hit and run. It was fun, but not sure if it was worth it in hindsight...

The solution is to NOT go a murderous rampage killing the only people with weapons in a town... why would you do that and expect the game to work properly after that??

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:30 pm

Are you talking about that scripted murder in Markath? Because other than that I haven't seen a single NPC doing anything other than their daily routines of mindlessly walking around town and to and from their "jobs".

@Cascinova

No, I am not talking about the murder in Markath. There is more to NPC's than you realize. I have , on 3 different ocassions seen thieves trying to rob shops and getting attacked by everyone. Once in Riverwood, and twice in Riften. I assume if the shop NPC's saw them in the act they would attack, and with no guards, there is a good chance they would lose.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:15 pm

ES tries to allow the player to do whatever they want. But that doesn't mean they try to make your actions have zero consequences. I have seen guards protect other citizens so you might have disrupted that balance and caused your own problem.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:54 am

And you're an idiot for thinking that the games AI is somehow compensating for dead guards and saying, "Okay, now that the guards are dead random NPCs should start dieing because of their lack of protection."

I hate forums.

maybe. radiant AI LOLOL