I think that it should be option number three. Really expensive stolen items you should need a thieves guild merchant because it would be such a hot item. You know stolen and people would be on watch for it. I like it the way I have it it would be more realistic. Some merchants also should not care like they are in run down towns and cites. Or they are very greedy. I hope ou like my post and will respond to it.

3 but I don't know why.

Btw I agree with your theory.

If you don't get caught stealing an item, you should be able to sell it to whoever you want. The only stolen items that should be flagged are ones that are unique, ones other npcs know you shouldn't have... Those are the only stolen items that should require a special fence. Everything else you should be able to sell wherever you want...

A mix of systems would work better certainly.

Basic plates and cutlery, really cheap stuff, you should be able to sell regaurdless of whether they were stolen. After all, they are such a common item.

More expensive stuff -as you say- would be hot items. After all, the authorities are more likely to pay attention to the theft of a nobles best silver than to a report from some peasant that his clay collection was stolen.

I voted a mix of both; I quite like Oblivions way of doing it, but the merchants were so hard to come by that I never really got into the whole selling stolen items business, it was too much effort for little gain.

On saying that though, half the trouble for me was that there was nothing really worth stealing! I broke into castles and found plates that weren't worth much at all.

If they made stealing actually profitable with castle vaults and expensive items all over the place (with adequate risks of breaking in of course) then I wouldn't mind keeping the Oblivion system as it is, but the amount of junk you had to steal just to make a small amount of gold was not worth the effort of finding the Thieves guild merchants.

I think there perhaps should be a way that a good thief can launder stolen goods to make them sellable to any merchant though, but not something that should be easy for just anyone to do or it would break the system a bit.

EDIT: I don't think you should be able to sell stolen goods to anyone because surely they'd know something was up if you are a commoner and you're selling gold vases or plates with a castles royal crest on them.

A mix of course.

I definitely feel like option 3 is the superior one... and I do like the way that Oblivionfreak described how it should work.


I think that there should be some kind of balance. Items which are obviously unique should require special treatment if stolen... be it a fence or a shady art merchant. Items which are over a certain value should be flagged if the theft is witnessed. Items which are petty crimes and/or largely worthless ought to never be flagged, and never require special treatment.

This, to me, would be ideal.

I think they need to make theivary overall better. Better items to steal,better entry points, more of a sneaky type of way to steal then just walk through the front door and hide behind a table and sneak off. In Oblivion I stole everything that wasnt nailed down to make a small profit, by the time I finished the MQ and got bored of the arena, there was nothing left to steal.

Yea that would be kinda cool. The merchants who want to buy those hot items should be hard to find. So it has both a negative and positive side about stealing such a expensive hot items.


Positive: You get loads of money. Maybe status in some thief gang dunno.

Negative: Hard to steal. Hard to find a buyer.


And it shouldn't be to hard to think about more things both negative or positive.

I like the mix idea. But how about making it so you can sell the stuff to any merchant, just you have a risk of getting caught selling stolen goods. Not immediately; you wouldn't know you've been reported until you have guards knocking on your door. Chance of getting reported could be based on the merchant's responsibility score, how much they like you, how recent the theft was, and the item's value (with a lower limit so that stolen potatoes would never be noticed). A fence would never report but they'd keep more of the gold for themselves.

this it was one of the few things i liked about oblivion, i felt it added an amount of realism [if you could get past the pshycic gaurds]

definately a mix.

I like Oblivion's way and Morrowind way. Honestly if you steal somebody's property, obviously they will have their name on it (except food), but the thing is stealing is a crime and it would be dumb just to let all or various items go scott free to sell to any merchant. If it worked like that then I can see problems within the game. Stealing and smuggling is a crime and in order to profit, you must go to a black market merchant. Keep it the Oblivion way.

If they were to use a more advanced evidence/investigation system like the one I'd http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1148932-guards-crime-and-detection/page__view__findpost__p__16799982, there would be room for a more dynamic fencing system too. Stolen could have a "heat" rating depending on how recently they were stolen and how unique they are, and merchants would remember who sold what to them for a certain amount of time, depending on individual and the heat of the items. If the crime is reported and guards talk to merchants, and you're remembered as selling items that match those stolen, it counts as evidence against you. Fences would be harder to deal with, but have the advantage of not being a source of information for guards. A careful thief could still sell to normal merchants, if they wait a while (thus compounding the danger of being caught in possession, creating a need to stash your goods) and mainly stick to common, harder to identify items, but those who use fences would be much safer.

I like how Oblivion handled it. It was so easy in Morrowind to be super rich early in the game. However, I like the idea of being able to steal standard items and sell them but not unique items.

Voted for a mix of both. I think it should be harder to find a vendor in the local vicinity since word would likely get out that someone stole something. I think it should also be harder to sell more valuable items due to the reasons already given. I wouldn't mind some kind of formula based on base value (x) proximity to crime (x) vendor's integrity = what you get for the goods where:

Item value for stolen items would be a ratio/combination of base value and potential stress put on the vendor.

Proximity to crime would mostly have to do with where the crime occurred and where the vendor resides.

Vendor integrity would be a static setting for the NPC. High integrity means they're not going to deal with stolen goods, low integrity means they will.

So ultimately, selling stolen goods successfully would look something like this:

If you want to sell a stolen item to a vendor in the local area of the crime, you're going to have to find a local vendor with low integrity to make up for the penalty of being close. You're also likely to get less for your item then if you were to try selling it another city given the "hot" nature of the item.

What I like about this, is that you'd still have the opportunity to sell it to a vendor of "high integrity" in another city as the "distance from the crime" in the formula basically accounts for the vendor not knowing the item was stolen and therefore has no problem purchasing it from you.

3. Expensive and unique items should require black market traders.

I think each merchant should have some sort of background statistic based on their intelligence, morality, and how much they like you that determines at what point they'll begin to be suspicious about the items you're selling. If the item is highly rare and/or valuable, it should set off their suspicions and make them wary of buying the item from you. That way, you'd have to either find a really dumb merchant, a really amoral one, or make an existing one like you so much (maybe by being a devoted customer? or bribery...) that they're less likely to question the sale of a potentially stolen item. That way it's not a "stolen or not" system, but instead all items reside on a much more natural graduated curve of potential theft.

In this way, the most rare/obviously stolen items would naturally require an amoral merchant (black market trader?) that also likes you enough to risk the sale, so you'd still be working extra hard to sell those items which provide the most reward.

For unique\rare items should need a fence - for everyday items like food, potions etc. should be able to sell to anyone unless you are seen taking them in which case they should have a timer so that they are marked as stolen for a few days but afterwards the stolen flag goes away and if you are caught by the guard with any item still flagged as stolen in your inventory they confiscate all of your items as possibly stolen even after being released they should only give back the set of armor you were wearing when caught.

I like Beniamus Revus' style of merchants + stolen goods. Makes sense

how would a merchant know unless it was of great value if something was stolen?!

I think it would be cool if items had a reputation system, so that if you stole maybe a king's crown or some ancient artifact in a museum, the merchant would refuse to buy it. If the object is more generic, however, then the merchant wouldn't know it's stolen property and would therefore have no problem buying it.

I voted for a mix of both. Morrowind's system was actually pretty glitchy. If you stole an item from NPC or faction, then all copies of that item would be marked at stolen for that NPC or faction. So, if you stole a diamond from the jeweler in Balmora early in the game, then tried to sell her a completely different diamond later, she would call the guards. It was even worse when you factored in faction ownership.

Oblivion's system was an attempt to try to fix this, but it was overzealous. I don't like that if I steal an apple in Anvil and take it Cheydinhal, the merchants in Cheydinhal all magically know that it's a stolen apple and won't buy it. Honestly, it makes no sense for common items to be marked stolen at all. How can shopkeepers tell a stolen fork from a legally acquired fork?

You should only need to use a fence for rare or unique stolen items, but not common items.

I'd go for a mix.

Trying to sell your stolen goods to the same merchant you stole them from would be impossible, but it's a bit odd that merchants from Anvil knew stolen items from Cheydinhall. They don't know a stolen cup from one you found in a dungeon and should simply buy it.

Also, if you found a silver cup in a dungeon and stole a silver cup from a store; how on Tamriel can a merchant know the difference? Does it have dna-paint over it or something?

On the whole I found the system in TES4 not overly realistic; especially where guards could sniff out every stolen item. Like everyone instantly reports the theft of an apple through; which then gets transmitted to the psychic guards

In real life you sell to a fence to quickly get rid of stolen items.