Merged Patch or Bashed Patch? : Fallout 3

» Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:17 am

I could not find satisfactory answeres to the below questions on the forums or the nexus, so I thought I would ask them here.

1) I am currently using both the merged patch and the bashed patch. There are certain mods that 'require' merged patches, such as WMK, but if I use a bashed patch is the merged patch even needed?

2) As for my stability issues, I get CTDs more often then I did on previous Fallout 3 installs, and I have been reading lately that the Unofficial patch is out of date and can cause CTDs. Would it be better to drop it from my load order entirely?

3) I use Fallout Stutter Remover (and OSR for Oblivion), I know that it is recommended when using the Oblivion Stutter Remover that the Oblivion INI should remain untouched, so does that recommendation also apply to Fallout 3?

Any help is appreciative!

Load Order for completeness:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Fallout3.esm01  Anchorage.esm02  ThePitt.esm03  StreetLights.esm04  BrokenSteel.esm05  PointLookout.esm06  Zeta.esm07  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm  [Version 1.2.0]08  CRAFT.esm09  CALIBR.esm  [Version 1.4]0A  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm0B  Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm0C  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp  [Version 1.2.0]0D  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp  [Version 1.2.0]0E  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp  [Version 1.2.0]0F  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp  [Version 1.2.0]10  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp  [Version 1.2.0]11  DarNifiedUIF3.esp12  GalaxyNewsRadio100[M].esp13  megalight.esp14  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp15  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp16  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp17  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp18  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp19  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp1A  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp1B  WeaponModKits.esp1C  WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp1D  WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp1E  WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp1F  WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp20  WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp21  WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp++  Fellout-pipboylight.esp22  Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp23  Enhanced Weather - Radioactive Rain and Snow Plugin.esp24  Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp25  Enhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.esp26  Enhanced Weather - REBOOT.esp27  Fellout-Full.esp++  Fellout-Anchorage.esp++  Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp28  Fellout-PointLookout.esp29  Fellout-Zeta.esp++  Merged Patch.esp2A  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:58 am

I started modding FO3 after xmas using just bash. I recently started using a merged patch too. Although these 2 overlap to a certain extent, they both do different things. I'm still learning about the merged patch, but know some things, namely DO NOT MERGE YOUR MERGED PATCH INTO THE BASHED PATCH.

You seem to have done this from the ++ next to it. I tag my merged patch with nomerge and have it active. Every time I rebuild my bashed patch it warns me it should be inactive - this is not true! Click no and proceed.

Do you also run masterupdate? This is apparantly a good idea too.

Check http://www.fookunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2058 from fook2 unity by shadowborne

Also see http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1197553-mod-conflict-how-to-resolve/ regards my questions about both

I have left my FSR ini untouched. I think some of the alternate functions are only viable wiht non winXP setups.

As for the unofficial patch, lots of people seem to advise not using it. I do and it's been fine, but when I stert using FWE (next playthrough) I won't.

» Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:59 pm

Thank you Torrello, I already know to leave the FSR INI alone (for the most part), but do you mean leave the Fallout 3 INI untouched?. Edit: I have heard of 'Masterupdate', that it turns ESPs into ESMs, but why is this necessary/a good idea?

» Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:18 pm

For the most part leave your Fallout3.ini alone, yes. There is quite alot of bad information floating around there and being passed off as "sound advice". For example, do not up your cell buffer sizes or preloads. If you overshoot the mark you could cause your computer to crash MORE often, and if you undershoot you get no benefits at all. The only thing that these variables could possibly do is make your computer take longer to load a game, unnecessarilly use up more memory than it needs causing lowered FPS, and yes a few less pauses for loading past the initial LONG wait.

FSR is a bit more forgiving in tweaking it, but generally the things that could cause problems are well marked (bAllowSlowMotion, bUseFullHooks, bDynamicResizing, and bReplaceHeap are all quite buggy and can cause problems).

» Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:44 pm

Thanks Jeoshua, I will reset my ini file, but will set ipresentinterval to 0. I figured that the ini advice would be the same as Oblivion.

» Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:46 pm

I`ve been experimenting a lot with FO3 Merge, Master update and Bash Merge, and I`m still deciding what`s the best process. It seems that doing a bash and an FO3 merge separately works relatively well, Master Updating sometimes helps, sometimes doesn`t...
I must write down what i do.

EDIT UPDATE:

Ok, here`s how I do it.

1st: I create an FO3 Merge. I do not include the Batch patch of Wrye Bash which FO3 will detect.

2nd: I activate Wrye Bash. I untick the FO3 Merge. I also untick the Brisa Almodovar Mod as ceratin functionality does not work if I Bash it.

3rd. Then I bash.

4th. Once it`s done I tick FO3 Merge and I tick Brisa Almodovar.

(Note: I have done no Master updating with FO3 yet.)

5th. I now run the game. Everything is functioning correctly, except certain raiders now have purple skin.

6th. I Master Update. This has no effect.

7th. I come out of the game and rearrange my load order in FOMM so the bottom Datafiles are this way:

GameFeverlevelledlists.
DWCRedux,
RaiderDiversity.
Bashed Patch.
NewMerge (my FO3 merge).
On restart the purple skins are gone and everything works fine. At least so far. I decided to stay with the Master Update though it doesn`t seem to have done anything yet.

Special note. Boss arranges DWC, RaiderDiversity and GameFever levelled Lists3 WRONG. If you let BOSS do it, some of your Raiders will have purple skin. Of course this depends on if you have these particular Mods. maybe I`m unique in having this combo compared to everyone else.

This is what works for me.

» Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:10 pm

Thanks Jeoshua, I will reset my ini file, but will set ipresentinterval to 0. I figured that the ini advice would be the same as Oblivion.

That's one of the valid tweaks that never hurt noone. There are ways to make the game display more terrain and better LOD stuff that aren't harmful either. If you ever did any oblivion tweaking the same rules apply. Those kind of tweaks of course will lower your FPS but up the graphics. Basically those are fine. Just stay away from messing with memory or threading unless you're adding the multithreaded AI and/or iNumHWThreads limitations.

» Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:45 pm

Thanks for the tips Shield Watcher. Also, the memory/threading tweaks never really made much of a difference, aside from Multithreaded AI and the iNumHWThreads tweak, but thank you Jeoshua for expanding on the ini tweaks.
Edit: On a semi-related note: We need to have a Fallout 3 equivalent of TESIVPositive (Worth it in my opinion).

» Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:09 pm

1st: I create an FO3 Merge. I do not include the Batch patch of Wrye Bash which FO3 will detect.

2nd: I activate Wrye Bash. I untick the FO3 Merge. I also untick the Brisa Almodovar Mod as ceratin functionality does not work if I Bash it.

3rd. Then I bash.

4th. Once it`s done I tick FO3 Merge and I tick Brisa Almodovar.

(Note: I have done no Master updating with FO3 yet.)

5th. I now run the game. Everything is functioning correctly, except certain raiders now have purple skin.

6th. I Master Update. This has no effect.

7th. I come out of the game and rearrange my load order in FOMM so the bottom Datafiles are this way:

From a previous post:

When I change my load order I:
- Delete old merge patch
- Rebuild Bash Patch
- Remake merge patch (Make sure the new bashed patch is activated in your load order!)
(wait for fo3edit to load all stuff then right click->make merge patch)
- Activate merge patch
- Run Masterupdate
- Play...

Note whan I build my merge patch the bash patch is activated!. With your method the merge patch is going to override parts of the bash patch!
This conflict may/will remove parts of the bash-goodness that you want. (you can check using fo3edit if you like)

You want your patches to work together - not against each other.

Masterupdate just does some stuff with your game data (sets esm flag on esps, and adds some ONAM(override) records to the data file headers) - it will not affect your game in any way, other than recucing the amount of instances of CTD's (especially on game-loading).

Also - don't merge your patches together!

Omni