EDIT: This project is discontinued for Oblivion and will be resumed for Skyrim as soon as we are able!


Big update!

I learnt animating myself about 10 days ago and have been animating like crazy. I created twohanded polearm attack animations, and implemented them in-game. I'm going to redo all animations seen in existing videos except for the ones I am showing you now:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QobNUA9GXOg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKb7u79uExE




Old Post Below This Line
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Update: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1136004-wip-merp-blade/page__view__findpost__p__16877448


Hello all! I am Maegfaer, the Scripting Overseer of the Middle Earth Roleplaying Project, also known as MERP.

The last few months, some of us (mainly 'Middle Earth's Bane' and me) have been working on developing a combat overhaul that is greatly inspired by Mount & Blade combat, simply because most of us believe it is the best medieval combat simulator ever. MERP & Blade will both be integrated in MERP and be released as a standalone mod for vanilla Oblivion. MERP & Blade is considered to be in early BETA!

What we created up until now:

• Collision-based attacks
  
• Four attack directions with animations (overhead strike, left-right swing, right-left swing, and thrust)
  
• Blocking animations for those direction, also with collision detection
  
• UI arrows to indicate your attack directions based on mouse movement
  
• "Preparing" of attacks by holding the LMB.
  
• "Feinting" attacks by tapping the RMB while preparing an attack and changing your direction
  
• A crude stagger animation as a place holder
  
• Possibility to hit multiple enemies in one strike

We are also creating the following features:

• Mounted combat similar to Mount & Blade, with many custom animations.
  
• Specific animations for polearm/spear weapons, and unique damage handling for them
  
• Theoretically, we can use an unlimited amount of animations at the same time.
  
• Actual world-relative speed modifiers for damage.
  
• Hitbox specific damage
  
• Hitbox specific armour rating
  
• Archery with inaccuracy and dynamic crosshair, also similar to M&B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzaGByjd9k4
  
• Dynamic weapon/attack speeds based on your skill level

For now, we don't release the mod to the public. Open BETA could come within a few months. This topic serves as a medium to keep you all updated on our progress, to ask you for advice, to allow you to give suggestions for improvement, and possibly for you to offer assistance. (We could certainly use another skilled animator with enough spare time!)

Ask as much questions as you want, and suggest as many ideas as you want, because we will certainly take them in consideration. This thread will be closely read and maintained. You can also visit and post at http://merp.straygenius.com/forum/, we like having fellow modders and fans around!



*This post is bound to be updated with more info in the near future*

Very interresting! Hope you guys can pull this off!

We can, I am convinced of that! We just need to focus on getting smooth and realistic looking animations for all different weapon types and attack\block directions at the moment.

Hi Maegfaer!

Props for the great work you and your Team are doing..
As a Tolkien fan, what I've read and seen on your project is fantastic!

Regarding combat mechanics, my 2c would be to take a close look at SkyCaptain's upcoming http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119591-wip-deadly-reflex-6/ ..

For realism, you could contact http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/326946-spookyfxcom/ , and definitely check his work..
As a SCA Knight, he really knows how medieval weaponry was used and he has released some related (imo) must-have mods.

Pretty sure that you know all this already if you have at least a basic familiarity with this forum!

Well, all the best and thanks for the update

Ha ha. I like the name. I like the way the controls are looking, but of course some better animations would be fantastic (better animations is a lot to ask for though). Keep us updated.

Hey Maeg, nice to see an ESF thread on this.

NifSE v1.0 should be final release rather soon (honestly should have been done by now but I got side-tracked by a project wholly unrelated to Oblivion); I hope I'll be able to make everything you request happen for this sooner rather than later!

Oh, brilliant

I adore Mount & Blade's comabt system

Never played Mount and Blade, but anything that adds more realistic, medieval combat would be awesome. Good luck with this!

I am well-aware of Deadly Reflex 6, I have been playing with Deadly Reflex for years and I think it is a good combat mod! I am not sure if you played Mount & Blade, but it is quite a different mechanic than what Oblivion and most of it's mods use. The plan is to first implement something very close like that, and then see what additions can be made to further enhance it.

I also played Duke Patrick's combat archery, but I will have a look at his other mods and possibly contact him for advise. I myself practice two martial arts, Karate (Wado Ryu style) and Aikibudo (which originates from the classical martial arts of the Sumarai, mostly from the Daito-ryu aiki jiu-jitsu), so I have an idea about what realistic combat is like, even though these obviously are not Western martial arts.

Thanks for the tips!


We have two animators in our team, and a third one applied just a few days ago. It is indeed a lot of work, but we will get there!


Hey DragoonWraith! I am really looking forward to NifSE 1.0, especially the NIF branch copying and animation manipulation. Thanks, again, for all the effort you put into it.




So do I.


I really recommend it, that game is a ton of fun! The main difference is that this combat system will make personal skill and timing a lot more important, it adds a whole new level of strategic thinking to hitting someone with a weapon.

Hell yeah! I've always loved M&B and wished that Oblivion combat was similar. The controls just have a level of intuition that other medieval combat games just can't compare to.

If this is somehow compatible with the upcoming DR6, that would be beyond amazing.

Keep up the good work.!

Having played (according to steam) 300+ hours of Mount and Blade Warband (go AD 1257 mod) and having played countless hours of Duke Patrick SCA combat mods - I'd say that Duke Patrick is the hands down winner.

Mount and Blade melee combat is wonky and no not realistic. The mounted combat though is a sheer pleasure to play and the archery is pretty darn good too.

What I dislike about M&B melee combat.

• Blocking stance takes forever to get out of such that once initiated your back is against the ropes.
  
• The constant telegraphing of swings - if you have your sword up then you are committed to the direction of the swing.
  
• AND once you have your sword up and cocked no backing out of the swing, so if your not angled right you have to fully execute the swing in order to then angle the correct way - even if the enemy is way off.
  
• The shields ability to block is not strong enough and shields are shattering left and right.

Compare this the horse mounted combat the game offers is like comparing classic poetry to high school creative prose. On a horse these issues all seem to matter much less and even make sense at times.

Still I very much like Mount and Blade so was excited to read this - until I saw the video. Please tell me that the combat stalls and ultra telegraphing are only for the purpose of showing the mechanics in slow motion. Oblivion melee (even vanilla) can be fast and furious and this is going to sap the energy out of that. Yes these weapon weights should be taken more into consideration and the animations need improving, but adding the direction arrows and telegraphing will rob Oblivion of what it does right in favor of what Mount and Blade does wrong.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1073323-wipzoblivion-reanimated/ may interest you (if you've not seen it yet).

I don't think it can be compatible, because the vanilla combat system is almost completely overwritten in this mod.


Point one is not a problem in this mod. Concerning point two, you can feint and switch direction with a RMB tap, also in Mount & Blade, so I don't really see the problem. Right mouse button tap can also cancel the swing when your sword is up as long as you haven't released yet, I am surprised you don't seem to know this. Point 4 will be fixed in this mod, due to the different nature of Oblivion.

And yes, in the current video, there is a minimum amount of time the NPC's "prepare" their attack, it is for testing purposes, so don't worry about that . In the final version this will often not happen at all, requiring you to react much faster. The direction arrows are there to show you the direction of your attack, not the enemies, but they can be turned off (I personally will, because I hate immersion breaking arrows). I guess I just plainly disagree that the hack 'n slash spam LMB combat of Oblivion is something they did right and Mount & Blade did wrong by introducing directional attacks.

Remember, that video is specifically marked as early beta, because it is very crude and more a proof of concept than an actual preview.

Wow, i have probably played warband and original M&B in the past 3(?) years more than i have played all the other games combined, i just love M&B combat, more so with the new improvements that warband brought. I will definately be following this, Good Luck . Btw, are you also going to make horse combat, horse archery as well?


1.) Blocking is definitly one thing oblivion (DR 5) does better. M&B blocking does feel slower compared to oblivion.
2.) Not necessarily, you CAN change the direction after you raise your sword to strike, i do it all the time, but it is easier to do only if you set your mouse sensitivity high and timing is crucial.
3.) You can always click RMB (block) once to stop the swing.
4.) Yeah, M&B type shield breaking is definately not for oblivion.

Yeah I guess I didn't know about the RMB to stop an attack posture.

Huh. Well I generally prefer being mounted.

And I get that it is beta.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that the LMB spamming of vanilla Oblivion is perfect and ideal or better than M&B - but once mods are added to Oblivion then it is far better than M&B. Why? Because mods can up the damage (either by weapon stats or by damage formula tweaks) and mods that can improve the blocking effectiveness thereby making smart attacks that get past the shield much more important and therefore discourages spamming.

Oblivion modded melee feels natural while Mount and Blade melee is wonky. Mount and blade mounted combat is incredible and Oblivion's mounted combat is well practically non existent (though DR6 out soon). I think that Mount and Blade really focused more on mounted combat and the game was balanced and engineered with that in mind. Meanwhile melee was not made a central focus and as such it feels like an afterthought. I'm hoping that you will be able to bring out the best of both. Duke Patrick will remain the standard for me and that is what I'll be measuring against. Still I'd test this out.

Yes +1 on mounted combat!!

Tastes differ then, even though with the right mods (DR and Duke's) Oblivion combat is a lot better than vanilla, I personally prefer the Mount & Blade melee. I will certainly try to bring out the best of both.

I already did some tests with mounted combat using the same method of collision detection I use for foot combat, and I didn't encounter any problems. I will first focus on foot combat though, once that is done mounted combat will be next.

...Just...have...to...make...an...immature...comment........

phew, resisted the temptation


I do agree that modded Oblivion combat is fast, exciting but I don't think it is incredibly natural or realistic. I mean, since when were people cut in half by swords? I'm not saying that it isn't enjoyable, just that if you are aiming for realism, M&B does a pretty good job. Weapon speed now really plays a large part of the combat system. We are also not just emulating the M&B combat system, but adding our own improvements. For instance, shields won't shatter after a few hits. This was added to M&B only for balancing reasons. We don't have to worry about that.

Ditto on the mounted combat

Oh you mean it sounded like I liked to be on the receiving end? That I prefer a lot of back up? Funny.

Well since I prefer the DP ... as in Duke Patrick (not being double mounted) - there is no cutting in half, weapon speed and reach and material they are made out of are all taken into account. But since this is a removed and unsupported mod I won't go on about it. But I do encourage you all to contact him as I recall he was interested in better animations (reason I linked the thread on animations). I've even read some of his book - the guy really knows his stuff.

Here is a new, far better video! I finally got decent FPS, and Middle Earth's Bane vastly improved his animations! They can still use some polishing here and there, but I really like this already! I also removed the long "preparing" of attacks, and made the attack sequences a tad bit faster. It doesn't look really slow anymore. Consider that MERP & Blade is made for situations where you face several opponents at once, and you will realize that you will need to be very fast to perform well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5e6cRyio_c

The new animations are much better indeed, but the animations are still too slow, the attacks needs to be faster. But great teaser, it looks like its almost ready, you guyz work fast. This looks like it will be ready by Christmas.

Note that my game is slightly slowed down because I used the Stutter Remover when recording this at HD, which slows down the world when necessary to improve the FPS, this is less notable in about the middle of the video, where combat feels faster than at the start.

The attack animations themselves won't become much faster, unless you use a faster weapon or have a high blade skill (this is for level 50), but I will certainly reduce the pausing between attacks more!

I updated the OP with the following list:


We can and are also creating the following features. I was so busy with the foot-mellee part when I created this thread, that I forgot to add the rest:

• Mounted combat similar to Mount & Blade, with many custom animations.
  
• Specific animations for polearm/spear weapons, and unique damage handling for them
  
• Theoretically, we can use an unlimited amount of animations at the same time.
  
• Actual world-relative speed modifiers for damage.
  
• Hitbox specific damage
  
• Hitbox specific armour rating
  
• Archery with inaccuracy and dynamic crosshair, also similar to M&B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzaGByjd9k4
  
• Dynamic weapon/attack speeds based on your skill level.

Request for modularity then.

I'd really like to be able to choose which parts to use. I don't mean infinitesimal divisions - more like archery, melee, mounted.

thanks for considering. I like the reticule of M&B but hopefully like the attack directions that can be toggled on and off.

I myself am a big fan of modularity, so yes, I will try to divide it in as many modules as possible. I will eventually provide a simple to use yet adanved INI file in which you can finetune many values and turn the features off that you do not like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qokc-YlQZTo

Just amazing news. Maybe this will give me reason to finaly play Oblivion.

As long time fan of M&B (bought my orginal version when it was something like .700 beta) I haven't been able to play any other RPG just cause melee combat has always felt so clumsy after M&B.

So good luck with you work and hopefully you are able to finish your work soon

How is the blocking happening? Will that be player controlled in the sense of being more than holding the LMB?

Can see see this kind of fight with shields too?