Okay, so I spent all morning messing with existing official and unofficial game maps with the intent on combining them to get a better idea of where places in other provinces were relative to places in Skyrim, and to look for any problems and inconsistencies. As I worked on, though, I eventually became just as interested in distinct geographical areas in both Oblivion and Skyrim (Morrowind was left out because Vvardenfell and Solstheim are isolated islands). So here is my work.

http://imageshack.us/f/856/mapoftamrielblank.jpg/

I felt that the official and unofficial game maps of Oblivion and Skyrim fit together pretty well, considering. I tried attaching the latest official Morrowind map (that bland piece of guar dung that Bethesda released around Oblivion) and it conflicted so badly with my maps, and with Skyrim, that I threw it completely out. High Rock also plays a little rough with Hammerfell, but nothing too serious.

Still, there are problems. The Hammerfell map's Western Reach is way out of place, and Dragonstar, despite being so close to Skyrim, seems completely isolated from it given the geography we've seen from the other side of the border. Hard to imagine it as the divided city it was supposed to be in Oblivion.

Along Cyrodiil's border, more problems occur. While the Jeralls line up fairly well (there is a problem area to the east), none of the roads between Skyrim and Cyrodiil match up nicely. There seems to be a gap in the mountains near Riften that's not too far from Bruma's Silver Road which could be exploited, however. As I said before, there's also a problem in the east where the Jeralls run into the Velothi. In Cyrodiil they seem to cut the Velothi of Skyrim completely off from those within Cyrodiil. Somebody needs to give here.

There were a few things I was happy about, however. High Rock and Cyrodiil line up very nicely, for one. But something that impressed me even more was the way the area around Falkreath blended into western Hammerfell and the Colovian Highlands. In a way it seems to be facing Colovia more than it does Skyrim, its border being void of great barriers like the Reach or the Jeralls. Even Cyrodiil cooperates, providing a passage between the Jeralls and the Colovian Highlands along which Sancre Tor lies. No wonder this area hosts battlegrounds like Sancre Tor and Falkreath. I'm impressed, Bethesda.

http://imageshack.us/f/826/mapoftamrielofficialreg.jpg/

Oblivion had regions just like Skyrim did, except many of them are horribly convoluted (and not as different from each other as) Skyrim's own regional holds.

http://imageshack.us/f/59/mapoftamrielgreaterregi.jpg/

I was inspired by the idea of regions like Colovia and the Reach straddling borders, and prompted by the terrible meandering of the Cyrodiilic regions to create this map, where I tried to identify some of the larger geographic patterns. I tried involving one city per province in each region (ala Skyrim) but sometimes it didn't work out. Cities like Kvatch and Cheydinhal straddle several regions at once. According to lore, Cheydinhal belongs in the Niben Basin, but I'd almost rather stick Bravil there and stick Cheydinhal it in the foothills of the Velothis. I like Kvatch as the southern tip of Colovia, but that puts two Cyrodiilic cities in Colovia proper. I might consider bringing back the Niben Basin just for Cheydinhal and to distinguish the vast wilderness to the east from the river valley itself, but "the Heartlands" can just go [censored] themselves.

The Rift and Riften are problematic. I want to stick them in the Jerralls. But the Rift, as a broad, lush valley within the Jerralls, deserves its own particular space. Perhaps they're part of the "Greater Jeralls", which would consist of the Jerall Mountains proper, the Rift, the Throat and its foothills, County Bruma, and parts of Falkreath Hold.

o.o Wow, good job. I needed something exactly like this butdidn't really have the skill to construct it. Why didn't Morrowind fit though? Did the borders run too contradictory of each other?

Yes, essentially. I originally tried the official concept map of Morrowind by Bethesda (way back when they were planning to do the entire province, rather than just Vvardenfell) but it didn't fit at all. So I tried the most recent official map, and though while it fit relatively well with Cyrodiil, and relatively well with Skyrim, you could only fit it with one or the other, because the rest of the province was thrown off alignment terribly.

Here I aligned Morrowind and Skyrim. Causes a huge rip between Morrowind and Cyrodiil.
http://imageshack.us/f/19/mapoftamrielblankplusmo.jpg/

Because the alignment is so bad, I don't think we can trust these earlier official maps with much more than a general idea of where stuff is located.

EDIT: That said though, the unofficial maps are almost completely based on conjecture, in-game writings, and less detailed official maps, so the details they put forward can be changed if need be (such as the Hammerfell map's incorrect "Western Reach" region. They just happen to fit well the official province maps.

Why not just adjust to make the provinces fit together. It wouldn't be totally accurate, but neither are apparently, all of the maps in question.

Good job. You know, the "gaps" aren't that big a deal, as most of them represent impassable mountains anyway - concievably neutral space between the provinces proper.

One thing I would add though, as someone who has struggled manfully with creating a map of early 4th Century High-Rock, is the unofficial map of the land of the Bretons you chose is probably the worst of the lot. It butchers the location of pretty much every established landmark in Bretony, and completely warps the shape of the west (beyond what a certain mytho-historical event warrants). The only thing it has going for it, in my opinion, is its boundaries fit nicely with the official Oblivion map of Tamriel (and it looks pretty). As someone building up from Daggerfall lore, I may be slightly biased, however.

I always assumed the little map of Tamriel we received with Oblivion to be the least authoritative ever in regards to coastlines and borders; a rough sketch from memory. It helps explain how its every feature has a habit of contradicting everything we know of the shape of the land.

Well, I wasn't so concerned with the gaps themselves as the distortions they made elswhere. Cities on the far side of the province could be out of place by a great deal.


Reconciling Daggerfall with the more recent games is difficult. You just have to try and preserve as much as you can. The official maps give players trying to recreate the Iliac Bay an inch that they in turn need to stretch into a mile.

I did a little overlay. High Rock isn't bad, but Hammerfell... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/mapoftamrieloverlaydagg.jpg/


I agree. A quick overlay can show us just how inaccurate it is. It doesn't even line up with Cyrodiil well. And given that it was released alongside Oblivion... Yes, despite being official, it is hardly authoritative.

http://imageshack.us/f/705/mapoftamrieloverlayoffi.jpg/

It doesn't overlay well because you're using the wrong codex map -the one you're using is a version assembled from all the separate provinces, the official codex map is this: http://static.zenimax.com/bethblog/oldcontent/TamrielMap.jpg

However, High Rock's fan-made map by Noirgrim isn't very accurate to begin with -I go into depth about it http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/806-common-worldspace-heightmap/page__view__findpost__p__82974 & http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/806-common-worldspace-heightmap/page__view__findpost__p__83131, the same with Hammerfell's fan-made map on Til (which Noirgrim also made).

Skyrim lines up perfectly with the codex map, apart from the Northern Coast, which is more detailed.

(As for Elsweyr, it lines up perfectly with the TES IV Cyrodiil map & the codex map -having made it myself -you've currently just got it sitting slightly too far to the left).

Ta'oyb: I like your map of High Rock much better. Especially in the fact that the original placed forests along the northern coast, although the PGE explicitly states that its "windswept," and "bucolic". Nice touches with the other details as well.

However, I'll have to disagree with the amount that Skyrim coincides with the codex map. Its okay, but the northern coast isn't just significantly more detailed, but it extends head and shoulders above the old codex map.

Everyone: I've done significant exploring in Skyrim and I've think I've located Elinhir, as well as what I'm calling the "Sancre Tor Pass" from Hammerfell to Cyrodiil. The locations of Cloud Ruler and Bruma remain obscure. Something I've realized is how horrifically out of place Pale Pass is. I suppose we'll have to trust Skyrim over Oblivion, but wow. Pics and locations tomorrow...

You may find http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/806-common-worldspace-heightmap/of intrest, since Morcroft is mapping out all of Tamriel for Beyond Skyrim and the associated provincial mod groups.

Entries into Morrowind are Dunmeth Pass near Refugee's Rest, the pass near Riften, and something darn close to a high mountain pass near Kagrenzel (Soluthis/Reich Parkeep would be on the other side). The pass near Halldir's Cairn could easily fork towards both Cyrodiil and goes to Hammerfell. The pass near Southridge Sanctum looks like it should come out near Bruma. A northern pass into High Rock is near Pinefrost Tower. http://www.uesp.net/maps/srmap/srmap.shtml, but I've might have missed one.

Alright, here are the screenshots that I have taken. I've made comments on each so you can understand what you're looking at. http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198008047148/screenshots/

Basically, the purpose of the in-game trek was to try and identify spots within Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. I have yet to delve into High Rock and Morrowind, but I plan to. Hopefully I'll be able to locate the spaces where the border cities were meant to be. I believe that I discovered the area Elinhir is supposed to lay, as well as rough ideas for Cloud Ruler Temple and Sancre Tor. Bruma eludes me, though. It is likely off-map.

The image collection also bears out my theory of a pass between the Colovian Highlands and the Jeralls from Hammerfell to Cyrodiil. Now while large bolders block access from Hammerfell, from Cyrodiil it is redundantly clear that a pass exists here. I'm planning to go into Oblivion to try and find evidence that will further my argument, but that might not happen for another week or so.

Transbot9: Yes, I've visited that just a few hours before you recommended it to me. I also realized that TOYB also linked me to it earlier when discussing his improved map for High Rock. It is an interesting thread which I am now following earnestly. I hope Morcroft can overcome some of the problems that he has encountered.

EDIT: Also, there appears to be no pass leaving Riften Hold for Cyrodiil. This means two things: the road in Oblivion has completely been retconned, as it now leads nowhere. And that Tullius is talking out of his ass when I gave him Riften Hold and he said something along the lines of "helping keep supply lines with Cyrodiil". Unless, of course, he means supplies from Cyrodiil, through Morrowind.