[Ron]

I just finished FT chosing Barnaky ending, because I wanted to know why some people want this as Fallout canon. Looks like it fits final events of war with The Calcucator more than giving Warrior's brain, and it's outcome sounds more realistic. Also Mutant Liberation Army is a nice addition for future stories.
Here's Styles' speculation from other thread, I hope he doesn't mind.

My idea as to what happened to the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel after the end of Fallout Tactics. Based on the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58

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Spoiler

Way I see it. The MWBoS fight a bloody war against the Super Mutants and then the Calculator. They force settlements to aid them by giving food, ammo and their best and brightest. Many people do join willingly but the BoS treat them as cannon fodder. The Elders let mutations join because they can be very useful in places humans can't due to radiation.

Vault Zero falls to the BoS and Barnaky becomes one with the Calculator. The BoS are happy to have General Barnaky back. There is a push to make him the head Elder of the MWBoS. The famed warrior (you) who is also a General backs the move to make Barnaky the new head elder, which he does become.

He soon recalls all mutations from the BoS armies and orders them back to their home bases were they are disarmed and tagged, later to be sent to work camps. BoS stops letting mutations join. Laws are passed and any mutation within the BoS' territory is to be rounded up and also sent to camps (work/death camps) which are the start of the great betrayal.

Elders that were most against Barnaky becoming head elder are removed from power. Soon purges happen with in the BoS, anyone that was against Barnaky or seen to aid mutations are also sent to the camps, entire settlement get put to the flame. Soon the Mutant Liberation army forms. BoS caravans and outpost get hit, work camps are liberated, the BoS see a dramatic fall in people willing to join the BoS, and they start having desertions.

Human numbers are replaced more and more by calculator robots and more purges follow fearing an inside job. The BoS stop trying to contact the West in order to get their own house in order.

Biggest blow happens when rouge BoS members set off several bombs within Vault Zero in a failed coup d'état. Many of the calculators systems are damaged beyond repair. Barnaky lives but finds has less control over the robotic forces. He can't control them all at once and the ability to make more robots is severely hampered.

Mutant Liberation Army makes allies with what’s left of the Reaver movement and are supplied with EMP weapons. The remaining slaver/raider groups once again become strong and prey on BoS settlements and outposts.

Decades of bloody Guerrilla warfare against the MLA and the predation of other factions (slavers, raiders) have driven the MWBoS back to their remaining strongholds such as Vault Zero and Cities in between Colorado and Chicago.

Lyons and his BoS are sent out to make contact but don't really know where they are, they know the MWBoS went East, they took a path that takes them away from the MWBoS strongholds at Vault Zero and the others in the Midwest. As Lyons gets closer to DC he hears rumors of people that have similar tech and a symbol are in the area. Lyon spends a long time hunting down those rumors. MWBoS fearing that Lyons is just the tip of a larger army coming up from the south west, do what they can to not be found by them.

Lyons is persistent and soon the MWBoS send out a group of their own elders to make contact. They tell Lyons that MWBoS are just a few hundred men and women close to Chicago. Lyons having made contact goes on to the more important mission of heading to DC.

Like the Barnaky ending states it’s a war the Mutant Liberation Army is distended to lose. MWBoS have seen bitter defeat after bitter defeat for generations and are now a shadow of their glory days but time is on their side. Mutations can't reproduce and the ones that don't fall to the BoS will be taken care of by father time.

Humans, including former BoS that sided with the MLA grow tired of fighting, seeing as how they have crippled the MWBoS and liberated much of their territory. Most just want to settle and farm, the threat is all but gone (so they think). After generations of war, less and less of the younger generations take up the fight.

Maybe the MWBoS will find an ally in Augustus Autumn and his advanced tech can help the MWBoS take back what they lost."

"The hard times" I see for the Midwestern Brotherhood is a decades long war with the Mutant Liberation Army combined with a very paranoid General Barnaky that caused people to turn away from the BoS and ever rebel against the BoS. Along with Slavers, Raiders and Reavers rebuilding their power and causing problems.

The Calculator gets damaged so the Robot Army can't be controlled all at once and new Robots take longer to be built. The Brotherhood is forced back to strongholds across the Midwestern United States.

Midwestern BoS can't produce their own PA so not every member gets one. Only the elite get the best weapons and armour. That is fact.

My idea of how Enclave Remnants could play a role as a part of the Midwestern Brotherhood under General Barnaky.

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Spoiler

Enclave would have been worse off than the Midwestern BoS. After the destruction of the Oil Rig and the death of all Enclave leadership but for Eden, much of Enclave moved toward DC, to Raven Rock and Eden. On their way they stop in Chicago, where the Midwestern BoS surround them and make a deal.

The Midwestern Brotherhood, don't know about the Enclave because they left before the events of Fallout 2. They want the Enclave's tech but more so they want the knowledge behind the tech, to save them years of reverse engineering.

“Help us or die where you stand.” The Enclave takes the deal and move on to DC. Only a couple dozen scientists are left behind, which they were going to do any way. The Midwestern BoS give the Enclave supplies and a base in exchange for more advanced tech/weapons. Midwestern BoS make sure they are well guarded.

When Remnants come back from DC after they are once again defeated, they learn more about the Midwestern BoS under Barnaky and their goals. Some see this as a chance to regain some power. A deal is made for Enclave leaders to become elders and the Enclave to remain independent body with in the Brotherhood ranks. Like I.T guys for the Brotherhood.

They help out the scribes and so on developed weapons to fight the enemies of the BoS. The Mutant Liberation army being the most pressing, Enclave leaders now elders start doing what Enclave does best. Become a shadow government with the MWBoS and someday take total control.

Who knows, maybe the Enclave make a deal with Barnaky to help make humanity pure blood again like the Enclave. Maybe that was Augustus' idea all along and why he went against Eden. Maybe he wanted to find a way to make waste landers pure through genetic engineering or breeding. Now he has a willing leader, Barnaky. That is willing to let the Enclave experiment to make humanity pure again, think about it people.

What if BoS members who joined MLA contact with Lyons before others? I know that Capital Wasteland Brotherhood fights actively with super mutants, but Lyons is an idealist. Overlord Calculator-Barnaky could remind him of Eden. Also he'd join for sure if he knew, that Enclave remamants allied with Barnaky.

This way East Coast conflict between Lyons and The Enclave could take place in Mid-West, and both sides would be relatively balanced (only if some MLA members sabotaged Vault 0, like Styles speculated). MWBoS idealists, mutant recruits, all other mutants, Lyons BoS and some other humans (Reavers?) fighting guerilla war against MWBoS, robot army and Enclave remanants. Sounds like good setting for new Fallout game for me.

What do you think about it? Would it be possible?

[Jason Wolf]

I don't think Lyons BoS encountered their war at all, perhaps he was at the furthest reachs of their territory where they have little influence and no fighting.

It would also make sense because the MWBoS could have fooled them into believing they were a very small, weak faction whereas in reality they could be a large broken faction.

I do not like the idea of Lyons helping the MLA to fight the Enclave and the MWBoS, it sounds WAY to much like good guys versus bad guys. I think the Enclave inflitrated the MWBoS and the MLA is just fighting the MWBoS with supermutants, ghouls, and humans who support them.

[Eileen Collinson]

Lyons Brotherhood do kill ghouls and super mutants. So I don't think they would side with the MLA against Barnaky. If anything the MLA would just see Lyon's BoS as another enemy. If Enclave remnants have made some alliance with the MWBoS and Lyons BoS some how found out about it, then maybe they would ally with the MLA.

Hypothetical within a hypothetical. If Barnaky Ending is made canon (dream come true) and Enclave remnants allied with them. I doubt they would make contact with Lyons BoS for a very long time. Just to far apart and Lyons BoS are to small. Depends on how much time goes by between games, but it would have to be several decades or more of Lyons BoS to be a real power IMO.

If Enclave remnants do ally with MWBoS under Barnaky, I am sure the MWBoS would learn of Lyons and what he's up to in DC.

[MR.BIGG]

I could see, decades from now, Lyons BoS either establishing a country or setting up an area (the CW being mutant free with clean water and possibly having Harold spread trees and grass through it) in which a country could be formed, which would most likely give them very close ties with Lyons BoS.

That country could be racist against mutants and someday meet the MWBoS who they would likely get along with.

[Nikki Lawrence]

I do not like the idea of Lyons helping the MLA to fight the Enclave and the MWBoS, it sounds WAY to much like good guys versus bad guys.

It does, as does Capital Wasteland conflict. Keep in mind, that Bethesda is now responsible for creating future of Fallout franchise, and they apparently like black and white morals. Skyrim went in good direction with The Stormcloaks and The Empire, but Bethesda showed their inability to leave their game without generic evil faction, they added Thalmors. I digress though.

You made a nice map Sebor, looks like it's based on Barnaky ending and worth discussion here.
What are The Radiation and The Red Hands Factions? Are The Legionarres from Arizona Legion? Chicago seems too far to have them here.

[Justin]

I'd see good and bad guys in both MWBoS leadership, Enclave leadership and MLA leadership. For MWBoS, there could be elders loyal to Barnaky and elders who has had enough of cruel anti-mutant policy, then for Enclave there could be those that still go with the mutant extermination plan (just that they've changed it for now, to use the MWBoS against the MLA and then turn it on itself while putting the virus plan on a long hold) and those who think "this is getting tiring, oil rig got blown up, Navarro got overrun, Raven Rock got blown up and the space crawler got blown up... I just want to settle down in peace with my family while our bloodline is still alive". For MLA, there could be those leaders who wants justice again, to live in harmony with everyone, to get MWBoS to change and join their old brothers again, and those who just has a big hate for everything with the Brotherhood symbol and has a slaughter-them-all attitude.
With those three factions, you'd get many different variations to do the main quest.

I don't know how much in touch anyone would be with Lyons' though. Seeing as the MWBoS and Lyons' BoS share very very different opinions, and as the remnants of Lyon's great enemy joined the MWBoS, and as the "good guys" in this scenario are a bunch of old mutants which Lyons' BoS despise, I don't know if anyone would like to have contact with eachother. Sure MWBoS could have, and be lying for Lyons and things. Then the Outcasts could tap into their radio feed and hear something about Lyons' having contact with another brotherhood faction and they're like "let's pack it up and move it!" :S they're in it for a surprise..

[Rudy Paint fingers]

It does, as does Capital Wasteland conflict. Keep in mind, that Bethesda is now responsible for creating future of Fallout franchise, and they apparently like black and white morals. Skyrim went in good direction with The Stormcloaks and The Empire, but Bethesda showed their inability to leave their game without generic evil faction, they added Thalmors. I digress though.

You made a nice map Sebor, looks like it's based on Barnaky ending and worth discussion here.
What are The Radiation and The Red Hands Factions? Are The Legionarres from Arizona Legion? Chicago seems too far to have them here.

Well MLA vs. MWBoS already seems pretty black and white. They're been trying to make shades of grey so maybe they'll mix it up and make Lyons BoS enemies with the MLA, to pretty good karma factions fighting one another.

And that's just some ideas I have.
The Radiation was supposed to be a ghoul religion (did not have a name at the time) that believed they were the next step in human revolution (because I'm a little tired of them being low class citizens). The MWBoS had some problems with them but were unable to wipe them out due to the war with the MLA taking such a tole on their forces. During the war the MWBoS realized one of their strongholds (named Radiation) was in a very tactical position, placed in an area where they could both defend one if their settlements and guard a road to Chicago. They attacked and slaughtered the base, outraging the ghouls. The ghouls formed an army dedicated to enslaving and wiping out humanity, they named the army for the base that was destroyed, the Radiation was born.

The Red Hands is a mercenary group that controlled most of the Mid West's mercenary jobs until Talon Company moved east. They're now locked in a war of their own sort while fighting for control of the Mid West's business.

The Legion splinter faction shown their broke off from the main Legion under the rule of Augustus Caesar (supposed to be a charismatic leader modeled after Caesar Augustus. He claims the be Caesar (Edward Sallow)'s son, althought that is a lie.). They moved east after a disagreement with Lucius' rule (in my idea for F4 Lanius and Caesar died with Lucius taking over). They're not that close to Chicago, they're a ways west of St. Louis, somewhere around eastern Missouri.

But that really is just all ideas the COULD happen.

[Sherry Speakman]

Mountians separate the east and mid-western bos

It would be cool if there was another faction that started in the lows area like a league of robot destroyer as part of there beliefs they also hate power armor and wants to erase the old war and start a new

The mwbos have a civil war going on set up by the mutant liberation army so there are three faction fighting over the same area and you can choose like fnv

[maddison]

The Appalachian Mountains aren't that big of an obstacle. They aren't like the Rocky Mountains and there are many roads and paths through it. Not that I want the MWBoS and Eastern BoS working together or coming into contact.

[teeny]

After a nuclear war i think they will expand north and south but they could send someone (you) to go across

[lilmissparty]

Well I finished my replay of Tactics yesterday, and I have a feeling the Barnaky ending will not be canon...

However, this can be good.

Personally, after playing out all of the endings, I think the destruction of the Calculator will be the canon ending. Mainly because it makes sense. During that ending The Warrior eventually becomes a general and it is said it will be years before mwbos and original bos makes contact.

Second, if any brain joins with the Calculator, there will be a massive robot/BoS army. How could the Legion or anyone else fight that? You need pulse weapons and gauss rifles baby!

Third, in the Barnakey ending, it says the MLA is on the run West, pushing them to the original BoS/Legion. Logically, I'm thinking if there was a MLA, there would have been some hint of them in FONV.

However, this is NOT all bad if you like the MLA, and a darker BoS... because...



Barnakey would/could still be alive! Because, he is a brain in a robotic shell.

So...speculating. Calculator destroyed. MWBoS remains a group that allows mutants, ghouls, deathclaws. Barnakey, who does not like mutation, begins to attract those pure humans in BoS with similar distaste for mutation, and they form their own faction.

This could have taken years to evolve. So, in a sense, the MWBoS is the MLA, while Barnakey has created a more militant anti-mutant faction of BoS. They could have changed name.

The cool thing is R Lee Ermy could return in his role as Barnakey. Technically, on way east the Enclave could have met up with this ex-BoS Barnakey faction, and that is where they traded for the Tactics looking power armor.

Or, you could say Barnakey took years but eventually took control of MWBoS and kicked mutants out, thus the MLA formed, but everything is just changed time wise.

[Eve Booker]

The MLA only happens with the Barnaky Ending. The Barnaky ending is the only one that confirms that he is even alive after the end. Without it we can assume he is killed in the final battle, even if he does survive I doubt he would be allowed into the MWBoS again, and gain any real power.

The MWBos are still brotherhood and saving the Calculator would be something they would want. There is no timeline given in the endings. If the MWBoS are seen again and a canon ending given, all the canon endings will have to be tweaked to fit the 90 to 100 year time gap.

I do admit the most likely canon ending would be the one were the Calculator is destroyed. Still the most interesting one by far would be the Barnaky Ending.

[Chloé]

I realize that, but anything can be tweaked, including how the MLA came about.

However, having the "MLA" in a sense be the MWBoS, and having Barnakey form his own group, is a pretty cool thing. They can do what they want, as Barnakey is neither confirmed killed or alive in any other ending. It is pretty easy for him to become neutral at the end, and thus survive.

Seeing how he is brain and machine, he can thus still be alive.

He also doesn't need to rejoin the BoS to form his own faction and to have had members of BoS who loyal to him and his ideas defect and join him.

Mainly the problem I see with Barnakey ending, or the Warriors brain ending as well, is the robot army that would make them unstoppable. Imo, it pushing the realism factor that Legion could fight BoS in power armor, let alone BoS + robots. Or anyone else fight them for that matter.

Plus, IMO, Legion scavenged armor from dead BoS who fought in the robot war, not killed them for it.

Either way, there is a cool faction with mutants, ghouls, deathclaws, and humans.

[Kelvin]

The only ending that he is confirmed alive is the Barnaky Ending but I get your point. We both agree he could be alive and that the all endings will need tweaking. I just have my heart set on the Barnaky Ending. Anything else isn't really going to be the same. It can be interesting but not the same IMO.

As for the Robot Army, that is where my idea/theory comes into play. That members of the MWBoS end up supporting the MWBoS. Barnaky starts some purges, removing those supporters and suspected supporters. This causes more resentment and some memebers close to Barnaky (within Vault Zero) discover they are on one of his "to kill list" so they try to kill Barnaky. A coup that involves explosives (kind how hitlers people tried to kill him) the bombs fail to kill Barnaky but damange many key systems. Barnaky can no longer control large numbers of robots at one time.

Another key thing to remember is that the Calculator's large army didn't come from within Vault Zero. The Vault had a sizeable force to start with. The Calculator discovered the reactor at Buena Vista and used it to power Canyon City and a number of smaller places. Canyon city and places like it is where the Calculor's army grew. They were used to produce new robots and repair damaged ones. The MWBoS destroy Canyon City and the other locations as well as Buena Vista.

So Barnaky's ability to produce and repair robots would be limited. More so after a failed assassination/coup that crippled and destroyed key systems.

[Laura Elizabeth]

I have no complaints against a Barnakey ending, but either way, it can still be really cool. Either a MLA or a MWBoS with muties.

Problem though...you don't need many robots as far as butt whooping goes. One Behemoth could wipe out tribes, and Calculator threatens the Warrior with 4 or 5 of them, so we gotta assume there are 4-5 Behemoths approaching Vault 0. Plus to take out the production facilities I think that was the destroy power nodes mission, so bring power back online and up and running.

Barnakey ending can be cool for sure, but really no outcome would disappoint me. Either way there is interesting faction possibilities. Replaying FO1 now...got 64 days left to get that chip!

Really it once again comes down to writing. But I do think a deathclaw Paladin would be cool, with a BoS symbol war painted on his chest. Lol.

[Crystal Clarke]

True the robots do provide a great advantage, but if they aren't being controlled all at once that advantage gets reduced.

The Reavers came up with the EMP weapon. So if any Reavers survived and there is nothing to say they were all wiped out. They could share their knowlegde with other groups such as the MLA.

It could also be said that the farther out from Vault Zero there is even less control. Could be said they had to build relay stations at their main bases. So not all their territory is patrolled by Behemoth Robots. They still have to rely on human troops, that don't all get Power Armour.

If they have started to fall apart, the Robots and strongholds could be all that is keeping them going.