I realize that I might be stirring up a bees nest of drama that has been trotted around here a number of times, but this is important for a project I'm working on. So try to refrain from getting on the whole 'why Oblivion is bad' diatribe.

What are the themes or questions that you wish the Oblivion main quest (only the main quest) didn't explore as deeply as you wanted or hand-waved over, or overlooked, or whatever. Basically, what do you wish was in the main quest that isn't right now.


On a slightly similar vien, I can't seem to remember the moderately general consensus we reached as to why Mankar Cameron could wear the Amulet Of Kings, if we did.

There's a ton of loose ends I could think of if given enough time. First and foremost, there was no real closure on the whole Mythic Dawn cult storyline. Yes, they were defeated soundly in Imperial City but there's never a real structured quest to eliminate the remaining members, or to "convert them" back to normality like you did with Dagoth Ur's sleepers in Morrowind.

There's also not enough closure as far as the Blades goes. You never really do much for the organization. You basically just join them and get a katana, and the use of their armor, weapons and sleeping quarters and even that's optional. I'd like to see more Blades faction quests, perhaps continuing after the end of the main storyline. Perhaps this could be tied in with tying up the Mythic Dawn loose ends, or perhaps gathering relics from Tiber Septim or a similar quest. (Items like Boots of the Apostle that were present in Morrowind but absent in Oblivion).

Another interesting question is what becomes of the Empire's stance on Daedra Worship after the crisis? Would the shrines to other Daedric lords be raided or patrolled more regularly? Would Daedra worship be outlawed outright, like necromancy?





I think it was decided that a person only had to be "of royal blood" or "crowned" to be able to wear it - not necessarily a Septim. It may not even be literal. A person with kingly ambitions could wear it. Or at least that's the way I understood that thread to have gone.

There's alot of lore-skimping too. The whole "Lorkhan as a Daedra" thing is really not elaborated on, which is sad beacuse it is a new and interesting idea. If the Commentaries are supposed to be the equivalent of the Sermons, then the lroe is jsut lacking when compared to Morrowind.

Also, and this is coming from a Daggerfall fan, the politics and Oblivion were really lacking. The only contact the palyer has with the Elder Council is with Ocato, and that is minimal at best. The internal dynamics of the Elder Council, their rule of Cyrodill and their own interaction are lacking not to mention their relationship with the governors and legion. How would the region and the governors react tot he emperor's death? Could Ocato inspire lasting loyalty or was it simply fleeting and/or non-existent? I think the fact that there was no legion faction was a bad thing, and quite frankly I would have liked to see more of the happenings inside the legion besides the small glimpses seen from the TG and DB. The fact that there were no challenges to Ocato's power, coups or any leigon insubordination to speak of really just made no sense.

What also miffed me was that the factions seemed frozen in time, as if the whole Oblivion crises going on was just ignorable. I mean, the Mage's Guild is extremely intertwined with the empire, and the fact that they seemed unconcerned about the Oblivion crises was odd. Also, in regards to the factions, the Mage's Guild and DB were especially underdeveloped. Why does the player only visit one DB sanctuary? Were are the internal MG politics? Where are all the members of the guilds and their unique situations?

Even Morrowind, whose focus was less on internal affairs and more on metaphysics and lore, was leaps and bounds ahead of Oblivion in terms of internal affairs.

Excellent, if anyone else can think of something, please don't be shy.

I agree with all the posts above this one.

In addition:

The Empress
Emperor Uriel's ex-wife is still hanging around somewhere. Is she not eligable for the throne?

The war against the Daedra
Mehrunes Dagon's plan to "invade" Tamriel seems to be to make portals appear all over the place, spread some ugly plants nearby, and wait for the player to come in and close them. We don't see enough of the Daedra actually rauaging the mortal realm.

Mankar Cameron's origins.
I'm sure it's probably buried in the lore fluff somewhere, but it's never explained in the main quest. Just who is this Cameron guy, and where did he come from?

The fate of Kvatch
The Captain of the Kvatch Guard states that he will keep the County Signet Ring for when a new count is crowed, and when Kvatch is rebuilt. This seemed like forshadowing the first time I played, but that particiular plot thread went nowhere.

Why the other Daedric Lords were sitting on their asses the whole time
Out of all the Lords of Oblivion, Dagon seems to be the only one who has noticed that the Dragonfires have gone down. Yo! Molag Bal, god of [censored]! Get down here and [censored] some people; the barrier is down! Sanguine, prankster demon! Why don't you come pull a really nice prank? Sheogorath is excused for his absence though, since "The Shivering Isles" shows that he has problems in his own realm to deal with.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/cosades_visit.shtml But even if she were alive at the time of the Oblivion crisis, she'd likely be aged 70-90. So I think it's safe to presume she's well out of the succession queue.

I agree when the DragonFires went out that would be the perfect time for the other Princes to get in on that action, all the known Emperor heirs are gone the Imperial army is without a leader morale would somewhat crumble, there weapons could use some improvement same as there armor, the citys are spread apart in distance so it would take time for the troops to arive. If i would had been a Daedric Prince i would have grabed that opportunity as fast as i could :shifty:

Dagon's sole purpose is to destroy Tamriel, the other princes have other objectives.

They did. Where do you think all the Spider Daedra, Daedroth and Ogrim all came from?

Exactly. For me Daggerfall and Morrowind both excelled in different areas of lore. Daggerfall had a fantastic political environment--you got to learn a lot about the different powers of the bay and what made them tick. You could know and understand the goals of most of the major politicians, and there was always a sense of political instability that came with the weakening of the empire. Morrowind had less of a focus on politics (though it was still there), but it massively expanded our understanding of the gods and the metaphysical, cosmic facets of Tamriel.

The problem is, Oblivion was set in an environment that was perfect for expanding on both of these areas of lore. We were in the heart of the empire--Cyrodiil had been the capital of three empires, for heaven's sake, and yet politics were non existent. The very doors of Oblivion were breaking down, the Daedra were supposedly pouring into Mundus, and yet we learned practically nothing new about the cosmology of Tamriel. Set in another province, with another storyline, maybe the lack of lore could have been more forgivable, but Bethesda chose a province, and a storyline, that demanded a greater attention to both the political and metaphysical areas of ES lore, and they completely dropped the ball.

In short, if you don't want to tell me how the Empire works, don't set a game in Cyrodiil!

There were no ogrim in OB.

I was gonna say that The Ogres in OB are not Daedra, just regular Creatures.

Regardless, the point still stands

I honestly have no idea but my theory is that Mankar only wore the amulet while he was inside a different realm. So it is possible that the rules of wearing the Amulet of Kings only applies to those inside of Nirn.

Mages summon them in. I was under the impression Camoran could wear the amulet as he was from Valenwood Royalty?

This thread is good, since well since these are Bethesda's forums, one would hope they take at least some notice to why people think oblivion was a watered down Elder scrolls game that's main purpose seemed to be just to "Look pretty"

I have nothing to actually add since people mostly covered the things I thought about. My main gripe with Oblivion was about how short and uninteresting the main story was, I mean thieves Guild and DB were much more entertaining and full of good plot (IMO) that beat the hell out of the main Story, even Shivering Isles and Knights of the nine were better in my opinion.

He's the son of the Camoran Usurper, which could explain why he can wear the Amulet of Kings.

What I would add or subtract to Oblivion

A bit more books, and learned preists, scholars, etc.

Jungle.

The countless saints and sub-cults everywhere in the Imperial City.

The Imperial City.

Dibellan Preistess' that would make me WANT to go to church.

Less 'subtle' changes to the enviroments, IE medium grass grasslands, or slightly larger grass grasslands.

More political infighting between the counts, rather then mocking witty banter, like, I want to turn in the ring I stole from Alessia to Count Andarys, similar to what I could do in MW.

I thought he WAS the Camoran Usurper. Where'd you learn that he was his son?

From http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/refugees.shtml.

I used to think that as well, but Mankar also wears the amulet in the Lake Arrius caverns (shrine to Mehrunes Dagon), which is inside Nirn.

What really bothered me in Oblivion was the (lack of) explanation given with certain quests. An example is Traven soultrapping himself in a huge black soulgem, because 'you need it to fight Mannimarco'. Why? Not explained. Of course you can come to some understanding yourself, and I would not enjoy every detail being told to you, but there needs to be more motivation behind such things.

Same with basically the whole main quest. We do all this because we need to relight the dragonfires, but a decent explanation on why exactly, is never given.

Basically, everytime I think 'why?' I would like there to be an explanation. Not to fully make things clear, that would ruin the whole point of thinking and coming to conclusions yourself, but at least enough information to have a decent motivation as to why you should do things in the way proposed.

They came from the Deadlands like the creatures of Mehrunes Dagon. While I'd also like to think they were an attempt to include the other Princes into the story, I doubt it. Oblivion is a pretty straight forward game and most of the information content is served on the plate, requiring little or no extrapolation by the player. If there was a serious intent to imply the interest of other Princes in the main plot through the presence of their servants, it's likely we would have been notified about it through books and dialogue. I think the creatures you mention were included because they are "cool".


The Ogrim are lesser daedra in service of Malacath. They didn't appear in Oblivion, but that has nothing to do with the Ogres, who are, as you said, ordinary monsters.


My understanding was always that Mancar's father, Camoran Usurper, was called "The Usurper" because he usurped the reign of the Camoran dynasty. I might be wrong, though.

In any case, his ability to wear the Amulet has nothing to do with his bloodline. It's due to the fact that through the story of Oblivion, he and Martin are reenacting the ancient conflict between The Rebel and The King, echoing the relationship of Lorkhan and Akatosh and also of Zurin Arctus and Tiber Septim. My interpretation takes this down to the idea that, from a mythological standpoint, they are both equally fit to wear the Amulet and wield its power... in other words, to rule.


The Dragonfires symbolize the covenant between Men and Aedra ? in simplified terms, while Men worship Aedra, they will be protected from Daedra. Worship of Aedra is instituted through having an Emperor. No Emperor ? no Dragonfires ? no covenant ? no protection. The quest isn't so much to relight the Dragonfires, but to install a new Emperor and renew the covenant.

This I know, yet I don't recall any moment during the MQ in which this was clearly explained. It could of course be true that I missed that, considering I found Oblivion not considerably interesting. I wonder if the simplified terms you name, are what the average player going through the MQ, will make of it.

What is missing, I think, is the game automatically drawing you into the lore, going beyond the surface of it.

The first time you talk to Spymaster Jauffre, he makes it quite clear that the Dragonfires are what keeps the Daedra out.

There are books in the game describing how the Covenant between Akatosh and the Imperial bloodline to protect Tamriel was sealed with the Amulet of Kings and the Dragonfires.

There's a loading screen blurb stating that the Dragonfires represent Akatosh's promise to protect the Empire.

I think the importance of the Dragonfires may well be one of the most-clearly-explained things in Oblivion.

And it was all vague, offhand, simplified and biased/wrong.