The whole good graphics / good gameplay dilemma, is it fictional or real?

The only instance where there'd be a trade-off would be for the same developers who handle graphics to handle gameplay. That way they'd either be spending their precious time on one thing *OR* the other.

As far as we know, Bethesda has its own full time art department. So we are left with the central question:
Do programmers who handle graphics also handle gameplay technicalities?

It doesn't look like they have considered it, to me. Unless they surprise us when they finally show the PC version, but given Todd's remarks, we shouldn't expect much over what we see in the 360 version.


I meant to say in previous threads. No, they weren't mentioned here in this thread, but it's not like we're just complaining "make the grafx bettr!!", because we have said what would make them better. We aren't complaining just to complain, nor are we demanding. We see deficiencies and are showing how they could be improved. We're not crying over it, and I don't know anyone that said the graphics don't still look decent.

Personally, I'm glad of that.... it's meant that I've been able to play a good number of "modern" games without having to upgrade my all-in-one comp with it's outdated graphics card.


(But some current PC versions have started creeping higher, so I'm a bit worried about the min requirements for Skyrim. Hopefully, I'll be able to finally upgrade by then. :sadvaultboy: )


It probably comes from a decent number of games over the years that have either 1) spent all their time on making it Look Great, and forgotten about the gameplay thing; or 2) knew that they had crappy gameplay, and tried to cover it up by saying "Woohoo, look how AWESOME the graphics are! (you're all a bunch of sheep easily distracted by the shiny, right?)"

I think the minimum requirement won't be above what the xbox 360 has (which is not very much compared to PC standard)

but I think that BS should make a leap of faith and let modders do the work. Including DX11 features such as tesslation AND applying it to the whole game would take waaay too much time, and I can understand they would rather take the time to polish the gameplay. But they could integrate DX11 features into the consruction set, which will be made available to modders, who do have the time to aplly them to the world. I'm positive that that would give brith to huge graphical overhauls, which might be credited to modders, but which would be possible. As I mentioned earlier with Parallax Occlusion Mapping, some things simply can't be modded in if the Engine doesn't support it (correct me if I'm wrong). I think it would be a nice compromise. Everyone would get what they want (even if they'd have to wait for a mod, but I think that'd be acceptable)

Lets bottom line it, folks. Skyrim is going to look good, but not great, because it is still targeting the same hardware as Oblivion. It will have all the same limitations as the original, with the exceptions of problems that can be solved with clever programming - same CPU, same RAM, etc.

The PC version will look marginally better, because even the cheapest video cards alive today have more resources than an xbox 360, but there will likely be no PC exclusive features. This is because they want the game to "feel" the same on all platforms, and so making it look super pretty on the PC is not only more money, but violates the principle of all versions looking equivalent.

However, I can practically guarantee that within a month of so, there will be an equivalent of QTP3. As soon as the modelers figure out the new skeletal model, there will be new NPC models with hyper realistic features and skin textures. In short, modders will do all of the stuff you are assuming (incorrectly) that Bethesda will do.

This was true for Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and it will be true of Skyrim.

And this is fine - as long as the underpinnings are solid, and the game is good, I can wait for the modders to do their magic. I would much rather see a solid game core with less than stellar graphics, than a graphically stunning game that looks like a roach motel under the hood.

Core features seem to be the only thing that modders can't mod. It's a good thing Bethesda is focusing on that this time, so the modders can focus on everything else.

Instead of picking out flaws, I'm going to pick out some of the things I like about what Ive seen.

http://rlv.zcache.com/birch_forest_poster-p228082645348663189trma_400.jpg

http://download2.zenimax.com/akqacms/files/tes/screenshots/ForestHunt_wLegal.jpg

The forestry looks spectacular. The way the leaves are colored almost perfectly with a real life tree....reds, oranges, bright yellow. The bark looks almost perfect also. To the bottom right of the screen, you can see a branch on the ground, with twigs poking out almost mid screen. The detail there is a nice touch. The veins/muscles/hair in the characters arm looks pretty damn good.

Making a game this big look this good, Im perfectly happy with what Im seeing. No complaints. It doesnt mean there isnt room for improvement. Its just I see nothing here that is so heinous that it hinders the game whatsoever. Im very happy with the way it looks so far.

Let's just say there is nothing about Skyrim that offends me visually.

+1