Hey! No problem.
The overal quality is fine. That's why the cloth problem is such a stain on a....errr...cloth.

:celebration:

Well thats will be nice additional to NPC behavior,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPzShjDDsok

No way.

That would require Radiant Milking!

People on this forum are so nice ..

Even now, looking back at the picture, I have to think about looking for it. Otherwise I don't notice. Too busy looking at the great picture.




Thinking about it.... due to the fact that NPCs (probably) use the same body & armor meshes, I doubt the consoles could do a crowd scene if the armors were, say, 40k polys. (I vaguely recall that number from some stupidly-high-poly armor mods for OB that came with the "you need a good system for this" warning). And I also doubt they'd make a new set of meshes just for the PC version. So, unless the PC engine includes some kind of edge interpolation/curve generator thing, I'd guess that's what you're going to get.

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Heh. First thing I thought of when I saw the thread title was http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MilkingTheGiantCow

And that is precisely one of the reasons that I'm concerned.

As for the edge interpolation/curve generator things, that's what dx 11 is for, but I have my doubts that we'll be seeing that on the PC, either.

No, you should go away. Picky [censored].

?
Among drama students, "Milking The Giant Cow" is a term that refers to the practice of holding your hands skyward (or merely gesticulating wildly) to show emotion. May be accompanied by a skyward scream.
?

I see a connection here...a common theme...
Enough said.

:)

You want this topic locked?
Doing a good job at it.
From now on, is your tactic going to be getting the thread locked so the end result suits you?
I thought so.


I

Bah, all these graphics are likely rendered on console (apparently the trailer was too). The reason they have low poly meshes and low res textures is because the console generation for this game is still the same as the last game. Remember how we didn't get the shadows that were expected with Oblivion, because it simply didn't run well enough? Now the same consoles have to handle larger draw distance, dynamic snowfall, and shadows for every object. What I don't like is how BGS is determined to make all three versions of the game "look the same, other than the PC having higher resolution and AA." I'm sure it's because they're not going to allocate a large part of their budget and time to making the PC version capable of bringing the high end PCs to their knees, but that doesn't change the fact that PC hardware has advanced a lot in the past 5 years, while console hardware has not.

Anyway, I'm gonna reserve my judgement until we see some real PC screenshots at 1920x[1200/1080] with high res textures, AA, and all the other settings maxed. Honestly I'd rather BGS focus on making higher-poly meshes for the PC version, then let modders make the high quality textures, which they've proven themselves more than capable of.

Is that standard procedure?
I honeslty don't know.

It would be swell, though. I jsut think it ammounts to double the work and i just don't see that happening.
Hoipefully, i'm dead wrong.

Well Radiant AI and some scripting can do thats
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBQ-Xrzd7I0
along with field preparation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYhezCdfiuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw7wwQ22Ys8

I can't help but hold Bethesda to a higher graphical standard. The naysayers in this thread talk like you can have graphics OR gameplay, but Oblivion had both. When Oblivion came out, the graphics were so good in fact that it was revolutionary -- maybe I'm disappointed that this isn't happening again.

I'm not very experienced with 3d modeling and I know it's not done very often. But I'm pretty sure it's easier to make a high-poly mesh, then simplify it for lower end systems than it is to make a low poly mesh and make it look better for more powerful systems. So if Bethesda didn't start out by making high poly meshes for PC (unlikely) then I'm pretty sure it won't be done. Still I think it would have been a good idea considering the huge gap between PC and console hardware.

Yes and no. Typically when modelling, you start with fewer polygons and gradually add more polygons to increase the level of detail. This is done by splitting or cutting existing polygons.

Reducing, on the other hand, requires that you delete edges to consolidate polygons. In many ways, that's a bit more difficult. A lot of modelling programs will allow you to automatically reduce the polycount, but the results are not always ideal.

edit: An another note, adding more polygons to a model after it's already been skinned and weighted is a real pain, because you have to go back and weight all the new vertices.

I thought this thread was about milking actually cows to add immersion :whistling:

Would the much hyped tesselation/directx 11 facilitate the whole process, or is it altogether a separate issue?

I'm not an expert on dx 11, but I think it would. It seems to be very similar to something called Displacement Mapping. Basically, you take a black and white texture and apply it to the model. Then, procedurally it divides the existing polygons and then it interprets the lightness or darkness of the texture to displace (push or pull) the model. So unlike normal making which gives the illusion of 3d, displacement mapping or tesselation actually does.

Yeah I was referring to the feature that automatically reduces the polygons, which I thought had been polished to the point where it produces decent results. Honestly my most recent experience with 3d modeling was with 3dsmax making a couple really simple swords for morrowind 8 or so years ago. On the other hand though, it seems to make sense that a game maker would initially make high detail meshes then test out lower poly versions to optimize them for the hardware :shrug:

All tessellation is, is a replacement for the old "Level of Detail" or LOD system that has been featured in games for years. Instead of switching from low poly meshes to higher poly meshes, tessellation gradually adds polygons the same mesh, eliminating the dreaded "pop-ins." It's basically like creating 1000s of LOD meshes for one model.

If you watch video demonstrations of it, it's more than that. It's also used to make things actually look round and just simply add more detail, without having to make a high-poly model. And it does that based on the texture you apply to the object.

It allows you to take a flat plane (consisting of one polygon), apply the texture and it becomes an actual cobblestone road, where each cobble actually rises up, with grooves in between.

I don't know if they actually will make a DX11 version, I actually doubt it as all the development seems to have been done (I suppose) in DX9. Todd actually mentioned that they would actually work for the xbox360 and then adapt it for the other two systems (if my memory is right, talked about something like it being much easier).

But on another note, i doubt they will include tesslation (sounds like too much work for a single plattform), but do you think they will include Parallax Occlusion Mapping into the engine? Obviously this can't be modded in and imo it adds A LOT to the level of detail and the overal look of the game, and if I remember correctly it's DX9, isn't it? (note: the screens aswell as the trailer don't show any presence of POM)

E: I checked out the source of Todd's quote: It's in the GI SE Podcast around the 42min mark, I quote: "We do alot of graphics developpment still first on the Xbox just because... it's smoother. And alot of that stuff goes over to the PC."

I'm not honestly expecting dx 11 support, either, as much as I'd like to see it. Call me a pessimist, but I don't think their track record really supports the idea of them putting that much effort into the PC version.

As for Parallax Occlusion Mapping, I'm pretty sure Oblivion did support it and did see some limited use, like in the caves. Modders just applied to to everything else for better looking textures. So I'd be surprised if Skyrim didnt support it.

good they are doing as they always do balancing great graphics and great gameplay :3

The point is, there is always room for improvement for graphics in ANY game that is and ever will be made. Skyrim is no different. But anyone can pick out pieces of another persons masterpiece and critic them, saying what THEY would want or what THEY would have done. Skyrim looks amazing, and Im sorry if some people dont see that.

Just look at OB graphics. We can all say they look crappy, animations svck, textures are junk, and so on. But when that game out my only reaction to the graphics was amazed. For a game that literally has hundreds of hours of gameplay, I can deal with someones shirt looking pixelated or 'sharp'.

But I guess you give people the entire world, and they will want the galaxy. When they get that, all they want is the universe. And so on. Im sure that "The graphics svck make them bettar!!!" really gets through to BS.

Here is my suggestion for Bethesda. Make everything in the game look exactly as real life would, literally. I dont want a game, I want a motion picture. Anything else looks 'sharp' and the resolutions svck. WAAAAAH!