We've all got opinions on it. Let's share them with one another!

Please tell us what you voted and why you picked that option. If there's any other options you'd like added, please tell me. Additionally, if you have any ideas for more stuff that there should be minigames for, make a post on it!

Could be stuff like:
- Gambling
- Enchanting
- Spellcasting
- Playing instruments
- Crafting items
- etc.


Let's hear it, people!



edit: Btw I think that some things like fishing, music and dancing should be implemented as animations with success depending on the character's skills.

Generally, I like what Bethesda did in Oblivion. Lockpicking has room for improvement, maybe make it harder to break your picks as they certainly wouldn't break like that in real life.

The idea is good, but they all should be changed to be more interesting and interactive.

Persuasion. Never again. Not the Oblivion way anyway...

I posted earlier about a pock-picking mini-game in the TES V suggestions thread #185 i think, can be read more about if you go there.
I voted here that there is some improval that can be done and that lockpicking has issues.

The whole lock-pick skill is useless, why would anybody want to waste time getting it bigger or spend money to train it when you can open a very hard lock with lock-pick skill 5? Now what they did in FO3 was great, making the attempt of opening a door the same as it is on alteration in oblivion. A skill is required to try and open one. However, oblivion should have an own system to open locks and not the same as there is in fallout 3 and NV.

Yeah, lockpicking in Oblivion doesn't really resemble real life lockpicking too much, which is why I think it should be replaced by a dice roll.... I think that's one of the things that shouldn't be up to the player's skills (generally because I'm very good at such minigames.... I could take a mage who'd never touched a lockpick before and open a Very Hard lock without difficulty... it's even easier in Fallout --- edit: except for the skill level requirement for some levels which I forgot)

I liked it much more in Oblivion than Morrowind. Morrowind's was too unpredictable. It didn't work for me half the time.

EDIT: I don't know if a dice roll is a good idea. It's too random and not overly interactive. I like what they did in Fallout 3.

I saw that post And I feel proud for having partly inspired someone to make an account here ^^, welcome to the forums!

BUT - I don't agree with you. I don't think lockpicking should be a minigame --- I think it should be mostly based on character skill. But you do have some nice ideas that probably could find a compromise with my wishes

why don't people like the lock picking? instead of dice rolling you can actually be skilled at it.

Ehm -- it's not the lockpicking we don't like - it's the minigame. TES without lockpicking would be... weird.

Why we don't like lockpicking minigames?
Because many people playing TES are roleplayers. We don't want stuff like that to rely on our skills as gamers. We want stuff like that to rely on the character we play's skill as .... well, whatever it is they are. Lockpicker, for instance.

Ahhh but as a role player aren't you and the player suppose to connect, excuse me if i'm wrong i don't role play.

Oblivion's persuasion-minigame was horrible!


But isn't it way more realistic for it to be a bit unpredictable? I mean, when in real life would you actually know if a random stranger likes jokes more than being admired, or if they absolutely love that you boast about yourself to them? What real person would even want to be boasted to...

Anyways, I just think Oblivion's persuasion minigame was baaaaad. It destroyed all sense of immersion in the conversation.

Persuasion... throw it out, try again. Yes, Oblivion is more "interactive" than Morrowind, but not really any better for it. Really, the logical step would be to go full force with what Oblivion tried to do, and actually give us various compliments, threats, boasts, and jokes to tell. While people would have "generalized" reactions to each category, each line would be multifaceted, and it would be possible to find a threat, for example, that would "appeal" to a person who "hates" threats. (The effectiveness of each line should be number-derived, and be based on content, social refinement, and whether or not it is specifically targetting some faction. NPCs would have weightings for content and the like, and faction disposition can handle that angle, if used as a multiplier).
It also needs to be based on successes and the degree of success moreso than "tell 1 million jokes".

Lockpick... more variety, mainly. Picking 5 different locks, which are all made of the same ONE component... no. We need different types of pins, the chance that guards can see us while we're picking (breaking a lockpick could kick us back to real-time for 1-2 seconds whiel we get another? Pins already set stay set during this period...) We need traps, but Morrowind's traps are pretty lame compared to Return to Krondor, which had multi-stage traps composed of different components, which required multiple tools to effectively deal with. I want to spend quite a bit of time and effort acquiring ALL of the tools needed to open the out-of-the-way locks that hold goodness not needed for quests (other than perhaps high-level thieves' quests).

Other than that, it's just a matter of whether it "makes sense" to spend time doing it in-game. Alchemy is "fine" like it is, interface-wise. Mechanically, it's a legitimate point for discussion... but what would we "gain" by making that section interactive, besides making potions take longer?

I like mini games. To hell with dice rolls, in my opinion. I've been an RPG gamer for quite a while and it is my favorite video game genre, but the dice roll thing is outdated and now I believe we should move forward since the technology has permitted it. Dice rolls aren't necessary for RPGs, they're just an outdated mechanic of RPGs and I wish people didn't have natural tendencies to be stuck in the past because I believe RPGs need to evolve and advance. There are ways to make skill matter without dice rolls and if I wanted dice rolls, I would play a board game.

@HeavyMetalArchmage
I just added alchemy so we had all the minigames there -- I don't want it changed (not at the structural level, at least)

Nice ideas for lockpicking and persuasion

@Biper
Connect, yes, but more in the way that I as the player direct the character. I tell him what to do, what direction to walk in and which enemies to attack, but he carries out the actions.

But I'm actually not an all-out roleplayer in every aspect. I like games like Fallout 1 and 2 where you just click around and make your character do your bidding, but I don't feel this is as interactive as TES.... wait, I can't describe this in a short sentence, let me put it this way instead:

As I see it, there's two ways of roleplaying.
1) Roleplaying D&D style --- you've got a character with numerical skills and attributes that you direct and make do stuff. It's not really 'you', but rather a puppet you're controlling. Dice rolls are very appropriate here.

2) Roleplaying 'live action/shooter' style (edit: "simulation style")--- you're 'playing' that you are your character. You're playing a role. I sometimes pretend it's just me running around in Tamriel. Since TES's combat system is very much player-based, this is a quite natural way to play TES games, not only in combat. If I am good at swordplay and lockpicking, my character will be too. Minigames and real-time combat are appropriate in this kind of roleplaying,

Sometimes I prefer the first, sometimes I prefer the second.... but what do I want the next TES game to be most about? I don't know. RPGS should be the first kind, but since there's no other developer as good at sandbox games as Bethesda out there, I really want them to make a "shooter" style TES as well :S .... Well, I'll be content with almost anything I get from them, so it doesn't really matter.... and we've got mods for what I don't like

That was grossly off topic, so I'll make a full stop here ------> .

My personal opinion on mini-games is that they should be implemented so they can't effect your effectiveness too much.

I don't generally like the Persuasion or Lockpicking mini-games for 2 reasons. If you get particularly good (or are particularly bad) at a mini-game, it will entirely effect how well you can play and therefore has nothing to do with your character's skill and only your own skill. Therefore making it more limited as to ways you can make your characters. You can't have a character that's better than you at doing something because you are holding them back.

The lockpicking mini-game also felt like that was the only "Real" way to do it and "Auto-Attempt" just seemed like a "cheater's way out".

Persuasion, imho, should be represented by dialogue options and not by any form of a mini-game. The Persuasion mini-game had nothing to do with "people-skills" and had more to do with your ability to process a mathematical problem with different levels of possible loss or gain. Bribing makes sense... except sometimes it really doesn't.

• You want to get into a castle? Bribe a guard. (Okay, makes sense)
  
• You want to get into a secret society of dangerous people? Give them money and prove yourself in no other way. (starting to make less sense)
  
• You want somebody to admit to you they just killed somebody? Give them money. (lolwut?)

So basically, for speech-craft you could learn new "tricks" by leveling up the skill to use in dialogue situations. (Just an example)

• Intimidate
  
  • Threaten to Kill
    
  • Threaten to Beat Up
    
  • Threaten to Slander
  
  
• Joke
  
  • Regular
    
  • Slapstick
    
  • Controversial
  
  
• Admire
  
  • Admire Appearance
    
  • Admire Personality
    
  • Flirt
  
  
• Boast
  
  • Praise Achievements
    
  • Praise Personality
    
  • Praise Attribute(s)

You want to convince the leader of a faction to let you lead a group in battle? Boast about your Achievements.
You want to convince an arrogant noble to let you come to a party that your assassination target is going to? Praise their Appearance.
You want to cheer up somebody who's sad about their bad luck? Tell them a normal Joke.
You want to make a person tell you what you want to know without them running to the guards for help? Threaten to Beat Them Up.

A person with a low personality skill would have less choices, and a person with a high one would have more.

---

As for things like Alchemy & Spellmaking, I'm fine with those because they don't depend on you being good at the game, just your character being good at them.

It really wrecks roleplaying in general when you're a master at lockpicking, and your character's supposed to be complete garbage at anything stealthy. But then you get up to that locked door, and it's glittering and calling your name. So you walk up to it, even though your character's skill is 10 you happen to have a few extra lockpicks on you... Sure, it's a very-hard lock, but you're a very determined little sleuth. So you break in, sometimes without thinking, because you're good even though your character isn't supposed to be. And sometimes, you really don't even know how to pretend to be bad. You think: "What kind of a moron can't do this?". And thus, character skill becomes null.

I don't believe in dice rolls, however. A middle-ground would be nice. Making a mini-game INSANELY hard at low levels, and easy as pie in harder ones would help tremendously.

Yes. Fallout 3's lockpicking was genius.

In my opinion, any minigames are good. They keep me interested in the game if there aren't any quests to do. Mining/crafting would be a very awesome minigame, and could be a skill for the character. I also like to see animations for minigames. For example, in New Vegas, when crafting bullets or making food, you get the appropriate material, select the item you want to create and *poof*, it's in your inventory. I would prefer it if, when creating an item, it would show the character striking the item on an anvil, or cooking it over a fire. Red Dead Redemption comes to mind.

I don't mind minigames if they still are relatively dependant on the character's skill.

Just please don't do that stupid Persuasian game ever again. EVER.

I thought lockpicking in Oblivion was brilliant. Much better than Morrowind's.

But I agree with povuholo about Oblivion's Persuasion. Never again.

Good poll! Personally most mini games can take a hike. But then when playing Red Dead Redemption I swear I put in 10 hours playing Texas Hold'em, I'd go out and do bounty quests just to get more money to play.

So, if they're really well done, then yeah mini games can be fun. If they're throw away, then they're useless.

Good mini-games:
Shooting contests (Fable 1/2)
Texas Hold'em (Red Dead Redemption)
Lockpicking (Splinter Cell 10x better than Oblivion's)
The ARRRRRENA! (Many games)
Pazaak (Kotor 1/2)

The only thing that bothers me in Oblivions lockpicking is that you can easily open a very hard lock with lockpick skill 0. This should be impossible. It's the same thing as though i tried opening the worlds most high-tech lock with a hair pin, like that would work.
Make it a minimum skill requirement and everything is fine. But when you break a pick, you get "kicked out of the mini-game". And no damn skeletal key ever again. The perks for lockpick would after that be the same as in fallout, allowing you to try and open harder locks, making it role playing as you'll have to increase your character skill and not just be skilled and open it yourself instantly.

I'd have to disagree for the same reason that made Oblivion's level thresholds for skill levels and perks rather silly. At one level below the threshold you aren't even allowed to try to do something that is one point above your skill level (i.e. you will always fail if your skill level is 24 and you try to pick a 'level 25' lock), but once you attain the threshold, you can never fail. Seriously? I thought Morrowind's approach was better. It just looked incredibly stupid.



While I don't share the view that any minigame is good, I think they have their place and work well in certain situations. I enjoyed playing table golf and 21 in Fable, and I also liked playing poker in RDR. I think some kind of mini-game where you get to craft your own armor, weapons, or clothes could work. I just don't ever want to see something like Oblivion's speechcraft game ever again. And while I would prefer a return to Morrowind's lockpicking mechanics (with much better animations), I could live with an Oblivion-esque lockpicking system -- so long as they find a way to make character skills matter more than player skills.

The lockpicking minigame in Oblivion is pretty great, if they make it so that you're allowed more than one failure for each pick it'd be near perfect.

The persuasion minigame in Oblivion was god awful though. They really, really need to come up with something better than that.

I think about the same as you do about lockpicking. It isn't that bad. One thing I would change would be the inner pins. They should be covered so you can't see them. Playing with them should start to reveal them but then they fade out again. The more skill the longer you see and off course the sound cues and it will be a real player-character skill combination. And rather than straight pins, there should be real combinations. In the spirit of memory match games.

For persuasion mini-game, I would use the same memory match game technique.

I would get rid of the number indicator so it is an actual guessing game and also get rid of the automatic switching since once you figure out what works on a person why choose wrong attitude. Speechcraft skill would increase the frequency of the hints not before but after the dialog. Personality would increase the amount/power. Also it can be done in a way so you can pick the attitude then a key word so it will be more like the Fallout way, less time consuming and actually useful.

The Speechcraft mini-game was an abomination. The Lockpick mini-game wasn't to my liking, and I'd much prefer something that relied more on character skills, but I could live with it. The Alchemy "mini-game" wasn't really a mini-game, just a "system".

Lockpicking could work as a mini-game "IF" it uses character skills for more than "perks" to allow you to even attempt a harder lock, as in FO3. One way it could do this would be to have the actual "difficulty" of the lock dependent on your character's skills: at low skill the tumblers would be more sensitive and things would be faster with a smaller "window" of opportunity, at high skill the tumblers would actually be slower and easier to work, so even a "harder" lock would present less challenge to both the character and the player. At low skill levels, the game would essentially become "unplayable" on a hard lock, but still technically "possible". At high skill levels, the easier locks would become all but impossible to fail at. Your character's skills would be the main determining factor, but you as a player could still work that "gray area" in the middle, where the difficulty and your character's skill levels were somewhere in the same ballpark.

As for RP, there are actually 3 ways to play:
(1) play it as a traditional "Pen and Paper" RPG where the character's skills are everything and you just guide the actions.
(2) as a FPS, where you are playing the character as YOU, as if you were suddenly dropped into that world. In this case, mini-games are OK.
(3) as a means of you playing as "THEM", where you attempt to "live" the game as they would, with their ethics and goals instead of your own.

There could also be mini-games of "games", such as a gambing casino, a checkers or chess match against an NPC, etc.