"Minimal HUD"? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:04 pm

The HUD looks pretty unobtrusive to me. I think the compass would bother me more at the bottom of the screen than at the top.

As for the font size, not everyone is going to play this game on a PC monitor or high-def television. Console players with standard-def TVs often complain about small fonts being unreadable. This could be a concession to them.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:10 am

So if http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3048710 Ausgamer article is correct and Todd can be quoted as saying that "one of his big goals for Skyrim was to create an in-depth RPG, sans clutter", I have to point out that they haven't done it very well.

The HUD clutters the screen far more than it should:
- The compass is huge.
While I do think that it needs to be up all the time (if BGS is going to insist on designing the game around quest markers *grumble grumble*), it's far bigger than it needs to be. Everyone remembers Oblivion's compass. What was wrong with that implementation?

- The status bars are huge.
It's great that they only come up when they're needed during combat, but do they have to be spread all across the bottom of the screen and do they have to be so thick? You could slice the bars in half in both dimensions and they wouldn't lose any functionality. The way the health bar depletes is also unnecessarily complicated and can surely only serve to obfuscate its reading now that we have to bear in mind that it depletes from both ends towards the middle. Not a massive problem but it isn't as intuitive as BGS say they are aiming for.

- Pop up text is too big and too central.
At 1:54 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9MBqdME14I video you can see what the pop up that announces a skill increase. This is in the middle of combat, yet not only is the text announcing the increase huge, it is accompanied by a level progress bar that extends even further towards the centre of the screen. Is this later information needed in the heat of battle? I personally got by fine on Oblivion's system of having the level progress bar in the character menu tab. Not once did I want to have that information thrust in my face. Not only that, but the text and the bar both hang around for far longer than is necessary.
A better way for pop ups to be shown is in the style of the sneak attack indicator, seen at 1:39 of the same video. This pop up is clear, concise and well placed not to get in the way.

I'm excited for Skyrim and I love TES etc etc etc, but sometimes what Todd says the team sits down to achieve and what we're actually shown in demo are worryingly distant from each other.

Yes.

Not only is the HUD disappointing (to say the least), but any hopes anyone might've had that the PC HUD might at least be better than the console HUD were pretty solidly eliminated by the Q&A.

"As far as UI, it visually looks the same across the platforms"

So, for whatever dumb reason, PC users are going to be stuck two feet away from a screen, looking at a HUD that was designed to be seen from ten feet away.

The only saving grace is that the HUD should be one of the first things modded, just as it was with Oblivion. I see it as sort of a sad commentary though that the best thing that can be said about a HUD is that it should be possible for someone outside the company to improve it.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:11 am

Unfortunately from what I've seen of the user interface it looks extremely console friendly and horribly clunky for a personal computer, when Todd Howard said he thought Apple's user interface was something inspiring to aim for I facepalmed so hard, but what is important to keep in mind is that all the demonstration gameplay that we've seen has been from the Xbox 360.

Have to admit, I don't especially the like the idea of Apple as the inspiration for an RPG interface. Like has been said, a bit modern and out-of-place.

"Skyrim as brought you by Apple!"

I'm still personally waiting for the day the interfaces resemble the in-game world. Fallout 2 stylee. I dislike the idea of a list of songs on an iPod as the right way to present an RPG characters inventory. On the positive side, that you can look at your items and rotate and examine them, like in Resident Evil, is a big big plus.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:16 pm

Yeah, make it about 15% to 25% smaller and it would perfect.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:06 am

The giant art deco teleprompter font appalls me. For someone who's been making such a big deal about how "seamlessly" the new UI integrates itself with the game world, the current interface could be from virtually any game. I want something in character, chiseled stone backgrounds with intricate runic patterns and stark silver serif fonts. Something that reminds me of Skyrim, not the Steam Community overlay or Xbox Live. I know somebody is going to say "lol new player itz for teh legibilitiez!1oneone!", but I think that Oblivion struck a nice balance between thematic design and legibility. And without looking like Fallout.

Having neon-colored status bars pop up on the bottom of the screen or "BLEAK FALLS BARROW DISCOVERED" dramatically materialize across the screen is not subtle at all. It feels like I'm playing Call of Duty or something.

I'll just say it again. Daggerfall's fullscreen interface was http://i.imgur.com/dGxW6.png. The very notion that a game which ran natively at 320x200 manages to have a less cluttered interface than a game from 2011 which will be running on infinitely larger displays simply baffles the mind.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:20 pm

I actually love the HUD and the art deco-like menu font. Reminds me of BioShock. It's not the most appropriate font, but I still really like it. :shrug:
Skyrim has some of the nicest menus I've seen.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:29 am

The HUD is actually a lot less in the way than in previous Elder Scrolls games... The compass bar is pretty thin, and as long as you aren't leveling up constantly the rest of the screen looks like it stays mostly clear.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:47 pm

i like what they have done with the hud mostly i really dont like how big the pop up is when you level up id prefer it like Morrowind or Oblivion where its just tells you in writing and not in the middle of the screen

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:50 am

I like the HUD as of E3. I like the font, color, and design. But anyway, and I might be paraphrasing, but...

"This is by no means the final build." -TH

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:23 am

I love everything about the HUD and the UI. Definitely the best I've seen in any game. I can't wait to get quality time with the UI and I can only imagine how much time i'll spend looking at all of the items in 3D.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:26 am

I think that it is clutter-less. Keep in mind that clutter is too many things taking up space, not too much of the space taken up. I agree that the compas looks a bit big atm, but the words popping up are in keeping with recent trends in video games. We all know how popular achievements are, and that has resulted in a huge amount of pop-up feedback in games recently. I don't mind if the game tells me how awesome I am in big letters every once in a while, and I don't think the HUD is needlessly cluttered by info. It disappears when not in use, and the information that is necessary is big enough that you can probably see it out of the corners of your eye while keeping focused on the action in the center of the screen in combat. That is the definition of clutter-free in my opinion...

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:49 am

There's very little clutter. Things show up only as they need to, and when they do they're crisp and non-intrusive.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:29 am

My only problem with the UI that I've seen is that it appears you need to directly highlight an item to see its stats. I don't care if it looks like a spreadsheet in Oblivion because it's just plain more efficient to have that option. Hopefully it's in.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:14 pm

:goodjob:

I know, let's go back to the daggerfall HUD, it eats up 1/4th of the screen.
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3483/screen30nh.gif

You're right. There have been worse implementations before, therefore this implementaition is perfect.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:28 pm

You're right. There have been worse implementations before, therefore this implementaition is perfect.

You good sir, are quite correct!

I actually like it, but there may be options. But you will probably just have to live with it.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:16 am

I rather like the HUD, and everything about it. If it was smaller, not much of it would be able to be seen perfectly. The compass at the top is what I like the most though, it reminds me of Arena...

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:39 am

:goodjob:

I know, let's go back to the daggerfall HUD, it eats up 1/4th of the screen.
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3483/screen30nh.gif

You are aware that you could toggle the HUD in Daggerfall to look like http://www.legendra.com/media/screenshots/pc/the_elder_scrolls_ii__daggerfall/the_elder_scrolls_ii__daggerfall_screen_2.jpg, right?

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:11 pm

Its Sleek and alot nicer then OB, and anyone who misses the spreadsheats should get a job as an accountant.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:41 pm

You are aware that you could toggle the HUD in Daggerfall to look like http://www.legendra.com/media/screenshots/pc/the_elder_scrolls_ii__daggerfall/the_elder_scrolls_ii__daggerfall_screen_2.jpg, right?

:twirl:
http://i.imgur.com/GteoV.jpg

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:37 am

So if http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3048710 Ausgamer article is correct and Todd can be quoted as saying that "one of his big goals for Skyrim was to create an in-depth RPG, sans clutter", I have to point out that they haven't done it very well.

The HUD clutters the screen far more than it should:
- The compass is huge. i think that it is a nice size
While I do think that it needs to be up all the time (if BGS is going to insist on designing the game around quest markers *grumble grumble*), it's far bigger than it needs to be. Everyone remembers Oblivion's compass. What was wrong with that implementation?

- The status bars are huge.
It's great that they only come up when they're needed during combat, but do they have to be spread all across the bottom of the screen and do they have to be so thick? You could slice the bars in half in both dimensions and they wouldn't lose any functionality. The way the health bar depletes is also unnecessarily complicated and can surely only serve to obfuscate its reading now that we have to bear in mind that it depletes from both ends towards the middle. Not a massive problem but it isn't as intuitive as BGS say they are aiming for. i don't think that they are too big i just think that their location is not optimal. and the bar depleting toward the middle is not what i prefer, it is more confusing and difficult to tell how much health i have left.

- Pop up text is too big and too central.
At 1:54 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9MBqdME14I video you can see what the pop up that announces a skill increase looks like. This is in the middle of combat, yet not only is the text announcing the increase huge, it is accompanied by a level progress bar that extends even further towards the centre of the screen. Is this later information needed in the heat of battle? I personally got by fine on Oblivion's system of having the level progress bar in the character menu tab. Not once did I want to have that information thrust in my face. Not only that, but the text and the bar both hang around for far longer than is necessary.
A better way for pop ups to be shown is in the style of the sneak attack indicator, seen at 1:39 of the same video. This pop up is clear, concise and well placed not to get in the way.

I'm excited for Skyrim and I love TES etc etc etc, but sometimes what Todd says the team sits down to achieve and what we're actually shown in demo are worryingly distant from each other.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:39 am

:twirl:
http://i.imgur.com/GteoV.jpg

Woo, Skyrim has a marginally less intrusive HUD than Daggerfall, released in 1996! But only when you aren't in combat!

» Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:27 pm

Having neon-colored status bars pop up on the bottom of the screen or "BLEAK FALLS BARROW DISCOVERED" dramatically materialize across the screen is not subtle at all. It feels like I'm playing Call of Duty or something.

I'll just say it again. Daggerfall's fullscreen interface was http://i.imgur.com/dGxW6.png. The very notion that a game which ran natively at 320x200 manages to have a less cluttered interface than a game from 2011 which will be running on infinitely larger displays simply baffles the mind.

I rather enjoy the "BLEAK FALLS BARROW DISCOVERED" backgrounded by some ambience music. Makes it feel much more epic, or creepy, depending on the music playing. It lets me know I'm at a place of import, and I like that.

Also, there's nothing like that in Call of Duty. Also, The Daggerfall HUD was horrid and monstrously huge. Takes up more screen than two of Skyrim's Huds stacked on top of each other.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:58 am

Woo, Skyrim has a marginally less intrusive HUD than Daggerfall, released in 1996! But only when you aren't in combat!

Only marginal? Only thing on screen is the compass, nothing else.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:50 am

Its Sleek and alot nicer then OB, and anyone who misses the spreadsheats should get a job as an accountant.

Who said anything about "spreadsheets?"

I think you got your talking points confused. That's the one for spellmaking.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:18 pm

:twirl:
http://i.imgur.com/GteoV.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2e2idti.jpg :ermm:

But that still doesn't have anything to do with Daggerfall's HUD, which is what I was trying to point out.