We all know the various principalities were consolidated into Hammerfell, Sentinel, Wayrest, and Orsinium - but did the smaller entities cease to be recognized entirely, or do they still exist as vassal territories/governments?

It is most reasonable to assume the kingdoms became duchies and everyone within them takes a step down in noble rank.

Why is that reasonable? It's a bit of a stretch that people would willingly take a demotion and carry on like nothing happened, even with a giant stompy robot on their doorstep. Something that might vary per person, but the whole overthrow usually goes easier without the demotions.

Not that there is a whole lot of information to go on, though.

Well, for starters, they know the people and the land. If we take the Macchiavellian view (or one of them :rolleyes: ) the common people are far more likely to accept a new government if they recognise their old lords in it (if they liked the old ones to begin with, of course).
However, leaving the former kings and rulers in charge would also be dangerous, as they would probably be filled with anger over their degradation, and plot to restore their old kingdom.

But perhaps Shades did not refer to the rulers but to nobles in general.
I realise this now.

Muthsera,

There seems to be conflicting accounts of what has become of the pre-Warp Illiac Bay kingdoms. In an attempt to understand what happened, let us first state what we know:

1. There was a kingdom in the province of High Rock known as Anticlere prior to the Warp. (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

2. There was a kingdom in the province of High Rock known as Wayrest prior to the Warp. (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

3. The kingdom of Wayrest encompasses the land formerly called Anticlere after the Warp. (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

4. The land is, therefore, no longer called "Anticlere", but is now called simply "Wayrest". (See http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

However.......

5. There were kingdoms in the province of Hammerfell known as Abibon-Gora and Mournoth prior to the Warp. (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

6. There was a kingdom in the province of Hammerfell known as Sentinel prior to the Warp. (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

7. The kingdom of Sentinel encompasses "from Abibon-Gora, beyond the Dragontail Mountains, to the edge of Mournoth". (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

8. Those pre-Warp lands are not referred to as "formerly called" or "formerly known as ". (See http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/warp_west.shtml)

Although the mighty JHUNAL would have me state official lore first (which I have done, lord), I would also like to include my own observations, as unofficial as they may be. I believe, as stated in a post above, that the minor regions are now effectively under fealty to the greater kingdoms that now encompass their lands. I also believe that the various knightly orders still operate as before, although they must now except a subordinate station to higher knightly orders. For example, the Knights of the Wheel defend Abibon-Gora, but now that Abibon-Gora has been swallowed up by Sentinel, the Knights of the Wheel must now follow and obey the Order of the Candle, the protectors of Sentinel, much like U.S. state governments must usually back down when countermanded by the federal government.

I hope that this helps.


Yours in the Scrolls,


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

(http://www.imperial-library.info/pge3/highrock.shtml)

Willingness? Perish the thought. Then again, if you shear off the head and replace it there is no demotions needed. Or the first noble to swear fealty gets the top spot of the now county. The robot was just the head of the army though, in each scenario (and then together in the warp) the armies of each swept through in the wake.

Not that there was a king for every kingdom, some were already independent duchies and control was shifty.

The Alexandrian way, very good.