Nice.

Crappy Ehlnofey?

I prefer the idea that gobbos are nothing but degenerated mer the altmer only keeps around, due to making good slaves and cannon fodder.

As for ogres....unfortunate mer that followed Trinimac and got hit the hardest?

This is extremely far fetched and has no evidence, but perhaps Giants (or another large-sized species) that followed Trinimac?

Anything about the ogres will have no evidence, other than they're apparently "cousins" to Malacath. But hey, it may be true too.

In that case, then I'll go with the theory that they're hermaphroditic mutant Bosmer from Secunda.

Too small

That's what they said when Malacath told them about his idea, and look at 'em now!

Please remove. I loved everything except that. Then again a Thu'um user may have his Shouts enhanced by Durian. Oh god the smell...

Greybeards: "To pull mighty dragons out of the sky you must find the secret of the Dragonrend shout!"
Young Tiber Septim: Plops Durian in his mouth, "Lulz, why? I can just enhance my shouts with...Master Greybeard? Are you okay? Master?!"

Could Minotaurs be the overlords of a previous kalpa that degenerated like the Dreugh? Far-fetched? Well then again the actual truth if there is one is probably more far-fetched...

Goblins are what Altmers look like without eugenics.

What's a Durian?

Goblins are what Altmer would look like if they had even a slightly better taste in good genes.
That's what she said.

A very, very, very smelly fruit.

That for some reason my girlfriend some people think is delicious. It is an acquired taste. One I have not 'acquired'.

This is my suspicion as well.
My pet theory about the goblins in Oblivion is that they are what is left of the Ayleid.

I don't think goblins can be corrupted mer. So many sources note that the orcs are in fact corrupted mer and not just beastmen, like goblins. e.g. "History has mislabeled them beastfolk, related to the goblin races", from "The True Nature of Orcs". That distinction wouldn't make sense if the goblins were mer too.

The original post mentions imps. I always assumed they were lesser daedra, similar to scamps. Is that not correct?

That is not correct about imps, TimEatsApples, as imps are not even daedroth, while scamps are.

Huh. Well, I guess I've had that wrong for years. Are they native to Tamriel then?

Just because Orcs are called corrupted mer, doesnt mean that goblins arent what happens when elves like Altmer dont practice strict birth customs and laws.
And just because goblins are called beastmen doesnt mean they dont have a culture, or language.
I would in fact say that the late acceptance of Orsimer into mainstream society implies there are other races out there, who would participate to Imperial society if people would let em.

Elves seem to be a very fluid and malleable type of creature.
We have the Bosmer, Altmer, Chimer, Dunmer, Orsimer, Moamer, Breton, who can all trace (parts of) their lineage back to Aldmer.
A lot of this change seems related to divine intervention, such as Trinimac (Malacath) for the Orsimer and Boethiah, Azura for the Dunmer.
But Bretons come from men mingling with mer.

The Ayleid are said to have been close to the Aldmer, similar to the Altmer, and maybe what they share is this penchant for becoming something else.
Maybe the Altmer have strict laws on reproduction because goblins (and who knows what else) is what happens when they dont.
And maybe its what happened to (a part of) the Ayleid.

yep.

I never said they didn't. Argonians and Khajiit are beastfolk and are highly culturally evolved.

My point was that if orcs == mer and therefore orcs =/= beastfolk (are not related to goblins), then if goblins == beastfolk, surely goblins =/= mer? Of course, the author of "The True Nature of the Orcs" could always be wrong about goblins, but nonetheless if goblins were descended from Ayleids then orcs would lose what was "special" about them in the lore (namely their elven ancestry).

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't goblins only appear in and around caves in Oblivion? I don't remember them in any Ayleid ruins. I'd expect to find them there if their ancestors had been the Ayleid.


Cool, good to know. Thanks.

Well yes, thats because they would have been driven out during the Alessian wars, like the Falmer were out of their homes.


Argonians and Khajiit may be beastfolk, but Khajiit are Ehlnofey that made a pact with Azura and Argonians are what they are because of the Hist.
They dont really have anything in common apart from the term 'beastfolk', which could very well mean something as 'uncivilised', or 'beastlike in appearance.'

Orcs will still have their place in lore, the Trinimac/ Malacath thing they have going on. They are still mer.
They are not the only changed elves though, far from it. Everyone that isnt Aldmer (and they are gone) has changed, and quite quickly too considering only about 6500 years have passed since the Dawn time. Altmer are considered to be the closest to original Aldmer.
That elves are so malleable in form is what led to my theory in the first place.
This may be the reason for Altmer eugenics, there must be one, I doubt they do it for fun or just because it is a tradition.

If the goblins are not of mer stock, they will still be cousins of mer (and men), since everything on Nirn comes from the Ehlnofey, except the Hist.

That was really my point - 'beastfolk' wasn't meant as an insult against goblins, or to imply that they were uncultured: 'beastfolk' is a loose descriptor for (semi)intelligent non-men/mer and doesn't imply any positive or negative attributes in its own right. (My point in raising the khajiit and argonians was that it doesn't even imply 'uncivlised', since both races are usually classified as beastfolk and yet are highly civilised - if goblins are beastfolk, they're in good company.)


But, yes, this does rather quash my objection in any case. Good point.

What about the goblins under Mournhold then? They were more reptillian or even fishlike in appearance. I really don't think the goblins are descended from Ayleids/Altmer. Pointed ears =/= Mer.

Well, I was talking about Oblivion goblins only.
Anyway, its only a theory of mine. There isnt anything that indicates where goblins might come from.
They might be just another subgradient of Ehlnofey, they might be devolved elves, they could be nymphs cursed by Nocturnal for all we know.
But its fun to toy around with things like this

Let me add Nymphs up there...

How do Nymphs reproduce? They obviously just bang, but what do they bang?

horny breton men, who are never heard from ever again. No, I am not lying, that's pretty much what one will conclude with the research piece in Daggerfall. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/scholars-guide-nymphs