That there are fundamental differences means more than that they are not the same.

The NATO is not based on "a general idea" it is based on treaties, administration and the military of it's members and most important: The soldiers of it's members are not the ones who decide whether they come to aid or not and these soldiers are paid and their families won't have to face the post apocalyptic wasteland on their own when they die in combat.

The members of the NATO wouldn't jeopardize their well being if they help other members, but if a settlement loses one of their best man or woman along with their best gear, their well being will be in danger.

There is always the risk of a new Quincy massacre and no one wants to be the one who loses their best men before the Minutemen vanish.

People are selfish and they are even more selfish when their survival instinct kicks in.

People are even selfish if collaboration would benefit all of them It is called: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

You can't even run a sports club, without a certain level of administration, if you don't want that someone rips you of.

What's your point here? NATO and The Minutemen are different. I believe I already agreed with that.

I'm not even sure what we're debating at this point.

If you're saying the MM's agreement is fragile and could break apart: I agree. Happened at Quincy. Sure as [censored] could happen again.

If you're saying the MM are a military: they aren't. See the above quote from a minuteman. Says it right there plainly. There's no chain of command and no military organization to speak of.

If you're saying the MM are unrealistic and illogical. I don't agree. Its a citizen soldier militia force. The people are invested in the MM system because it helps them. It helps them because it offers protection. That offer of protection only remains if they themselves agree to help. Its a very simple program.

Given it managed to survive for more than a hundred years before breaking up, I'd think it's far less fragile than you give it credit for.

Sure, it lasted for awhile. But one single incident like Quincy can cause it to fall apart. Its greatest strength, is also in a odd way, its greatest weakness. Its loosely organized, which means that as long as settlements agree to help one another in times of crisis. The Minutemen exist in-principle. You can't cut the head of a snake that doesn't have a head, so killing their leaders or dismantling their ideology won't stop them. Because they don't have leaders or an ideology.

But the minute the concept of "assist when needed, and I'll do the same" falls apart, the whole thing crumbles. Its like a chain reaction. People start to question whether or not their neighbors will actually help. Someone, somewhere refuses to help someone else. Petty disagreements and vendettas arise, and suddenly the MM cease to exist.

The MM went from actually making a difference at Quincy, with a large contingent of men reinforcing the settlers there. To Preston. Literally just Preston. That's a VERY rapid collapse.

Its a stack of cards. It could last for ages untouched, but the moment there's a ripple, the whole thing could crash down.

That, to me, is the fragile. And truthfully there's nothing you can do in-game to prevent such an occurrence from happening again. You can't, for instance, whip the MM into an actual military and define a chain of command with an honest to goodness leadership.

The downsides of the MM aren't the morality of their faction, its their structure.

If it's a once-in-a-century occurrence, it's probably not worth fixating on, especially if the Minutemen end up becoming a lot more powerful than they were prior to the loss of General Becker. Don't forget, what happened at Quincy was the culmination of five years of misfortune and decline, starting with General Becker's death, and exasperated by internal tension and the loss of The Castle. It didn't happen overnight, and it won't necessarily happen again.

In a sense though, it sort of did. You're absolutely right in saying that the events of Quincy started with the squabbles after General Becker died, but Quincy was the torch that lit the flame. Col. Hollis called for reinforcements, and none showed up. Perhaps one settlement started first saying "I don't like Col. Hollis, so we're not going."

Then another started up by saying "Well if the Dinkelburgs aren't going, then us Finklesteins aren't going."

And then on and on and on. Suddenly, the MM go from a large reinforcement force, with the potential for more troops coming in. To nothing. Because a chain reaction happened. Once one settlement broke stride, they all did. It went from a network of potential fighters, to Preston.

Now again, you're right. Perhaps this new iteration of the MM will last for another hundred years. Maybe it'll last for 50. Maybe 10. Or maybe it'll collapse next year. There's no guarantee it will and there's no guarantee it won't. But there's always a chance. Because it is a fragile system. One that's entirely dependent on the faith in the system itself. Once that faith breaks. [censored] hits the fan.

And IMO because its already happened once, there's now the door that it might happen again. People's faith has already been shaken once. You can hear people in the settlements expressing this disbelief in the MM regularly. With things like "Yeah, we'll see how long THAT lasts." The cats out of the bag, so to speak.

It is probably much less fragile of a system with the Castle back under their control, Radio Freedom coordinating them, mortar batteries all over the Commonwealth, and- potentially- the PR boost from having achieved some of the most resounding victories in the Commonwealth's history.

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Only time will tell. However, ultimately the fundamental issues involved in having a loose organization are still not fixed by the end of the main questline. Which means the door to Quincy 2.0 is still open.

I personally expect that the Minutemen as they currently are wont exist for too much longer, rather they are the beginnings of an eventual confederacy of Comonwealth settlements, or some sort of unified government.


Maybe this is my own head cannon, but once the Minutemen destroy the institute, not only do they gain a lot of respect and manpower throughout the common wealth, but they also continue to have more and more settlements fall under their banner. It stands to reason that the Minutemen spend a lot of resources not only defending these settlements, but building them up as well (source- that's what I spend a lot of time doing as general of he Minutemen).


With all of these well supplied, well defended settlements owing much of their prosperity to the Minutemen, I doubt that a Quincy would be happening anytime soon. Through the Minutemen, many of these settlements go from simple farms or mud puddles to thriving forts and communities (although again, that could just be my head cannon, but it seems to be what Bethesda had in mind for the purpose of the Minutemen since they literally tie settlement building into their quest line. After finishing the main quest for them, all my SS is doing is scaving for supplies for settlements, doing MM raidient quests, and going from settlement to settlement, building them up in the process).


According to Nick Valentine, the settlements of the commonwealth were very close to creating a coalition government, but the institute killed all of the settlement leaders who were sent to the meeting. With the institute gone (thanks to the MM), the settlements prosperous (thanks to the MM) and all united under the MM banner, I very easily see the MM being the foundation for a new Conminwealth state/ confederacy between the settlements, not just remaining a simple militia. Even if they remain a militia or military force of some sort, the government that forms should provide enough unity/ stability to ensure a Quincy style incident never happens again.


Sorry for the typos that surely existed in that wall of text- I'm on my phone typing all of this out.

That didn't happen; in fact, the Institute helped set that government up. It fell apart for other reasons, and the Institute lost faith in the Commonwealth's ability to solve its own problems.

Yes, you can find holotapes which prove this actually.

Which, to be honest, doesn't give a whole lot of hope towards the successful reformation of the CPG either. The first one had the full backing of The Institute. Four years of work and the support of The Institute's considerable resources, and it still fell into infighting.

Oh darn. Well that was launch night when I thought I heard him say that- there was so much going on that I easily could have misheard what he said.


Still, I believe in the Commonwealth's ability to form a government through an end game MM. I suppose only time will tell to see what Beth decides to do.

It's entirely possible, though it's a huge unknown and would take a lot of work. Honestly I think it'd be better to unite them under one banner then a federation of independent settlements.

The SS could create a central miltia unit and several trainers to send out to train the others. Basically, how USA army during Revolutionary War trained.

Im pretty sure in a scenario like fallout a faction like BoS would be needed to rebuild mankind.


I mean good intentions are by far not enough to lead some people/a country. What is the vision from minutemen? Ok they kicked all the bad guys out but whats next? How could they provide food for everyone? In a real world scenario when a vegetable doesnt pop out its stuff every 5 minutes it would be quite a challenge! Whats the plan in winter?


And what about sickness? I havent seen preston talking about this kind of problem. Sure the super mutants over the hill are a bigger problem at the moment but even small infections and sicknesses could struck down whole settlements without medicine.


Both aspects are covered by BoS or the institute. Railroad and minute men wouldnt end up well if they had to run a whole country. Sure they have good intentions but thats not enough. Especially in a world that went down to the worst like in fallout.

BOS don't have farms in Commonwealth

Diamond City has a clinic, council and a school

Curie could teach people how to heal

Minuteman protect farmers, and the commonwealth produced food

etc. etc. etc.

BoS does the research to improve plants etc. Without it science you cant feed a whole country. People will starve because if you let grow things naturally the will be times when a harvest wont be perfect due to insects etc. So planting food and collect the muta fruit 5 minutes later works in fallout as a video game but thats it.


Curie and the diamond city clinic left alone to run the health system of a whole country would be a brave decision. Or a stupid one.


There is no team that does research. Sure curie could start it, obviously she would be perfect for that but how long do you think she needs till a functional system is build up?


It would take several years until people are teached and able to assist her. So BoS or the institute is way better prepared to handle a huge amount of sick people. Which would be the case in fallout. The hygiene standarts are low and its a dangerous world. So broken arms and legs, diarrhea would be the daily work.


Curie was also locked away for years, so her data is not up to date. She says it a lot of times she wants to see how deceases have mutated and so on. Which means she would need time aswell to find the right cure. More time wasted- more people died.

Green and red apples are not the same the NATO and the Minutemen are worlds apart.

Things people don't want to hear when investing or sign insurance! Because that's how the Minutemen work. The last one who backs out will be left out in the cold.

It is a very fragile program. It would never survive without administration.

People are selfish and they are even more selfish when their survival instinct kicks in.

People are even selfish if collaboration would benefit all of them It is called: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

You can't even run a sports club, without a certain level of administration, if you don't want that someone rips you of.

This was never in dispute. One is a national defense treaty, the other is a local ad-hoc militia.

You keep saying this and yet it does. Unless you have some in-game sources to cite for how the Minutemen are a well-organized military. Which I've already provided proof that the MM themselves dispute that.

It survives until an event like Quincy happens. Which is why its arguable that may NOT be a lasting organization. Something I'm not disputing. But obviously it lasted 100 years once. And perhaps it'll last another 100 years. Or perhaps it won't. Its a gamble.

Except with a central base of operations and more of a command structure, any such action would not only be less likely, but something that they would be able to recover from. Those who abandoned their colleagues would be brought to task and chastised, whoever defeated the abandoned MInutemen would potentially be subjected to retaliatory artillery bombardment, and the organization would begin the process of recovering.

That the Minutemen "work" doesn't prove anything, except that the game is unrealistic. That something works in a game does not prove that is makes sense.