how can you miss something that was never in the game
this isn't oblivion or morrowind

anyway a lot of them were silly or redundant
strength=stamina
in fact IRL they kind of work against eachother
muscles require oxygen
the more you have the sooner you will tire

and stuff like intelligence was a must have for any mage since it governed your total magicka
which makes it kind of redundant since you need regardless
I always wanted to make a destruction mage but had to waste points on it

Theres nothing old about the pen and paper games. They are still fun to play, and usually provide more of an experience (for me) than video games.

Yeah, the lack of a acrobatics/athletics skill tree bothers me. Although, running and jumping would increase your level, and I do those a lot, so my level would be artificially inflated. I think this is why they didn't include it in the first place. With the level scaling and all.

Having attributes (with speed) would definitely help balance the lack of "steed tree" (as you called it), but we would be missing perks that help you jump higher, take less damage when you fall, and whatever other great bonuses you can think of that fall under this category.

So that's definitely a tough problem to solve. If anyone would care to share their idea of how it could be implemented, please do so.



Actually, they add more realism to the game, and more character development. Albeit, the older systems of attribute points weren't flaweless, they could have been improved upon. But instead of improving upon them, they scrapped them entirely. In the process, removing certain elements all-together. You'll say "no no no! they are just in the perk trees!". Then show me how to increase my speed. I double dog dare you.






What are you talking about? We're talking about the elder scrolls series. Last time I checked, Skyrim is part of the series.



Nope. Strength = melee damage and carry weight (at least in TES series)



That's some nice logic you have there. So by your logic, a person with 0 muscle mass never gets tired?

Besides, you are arguing over something that makes no sense. Strength never governed fatigue(stamina).



You didn't waste points on it. It increases your mana(magicka). That's not redundant, that's a solid game mechanic.

Does one go to the gym and say, "Oh my strength is 25, I'm going to raise it to 27 today?"

The sooner RPGs get rid of stats the better. If you want more strength, you wear heavier armor. If you want more speed, run instead of walk. If you want better speechcraft and intelligence., read more books. Etc.

Basically, the numbers are in the background, and the result of those numbers are shown through the actions and appearance of your character.

Well SPECIAL is better as it's (suppoesed) to be a fixed stat.
STR 3 or STR 8 really matters (with the original design) and since the only way to raise it is by takign a perk like Intense Training or Increase Strength or getting an implant it's pretty much fixed.

But stat systems that go from 1 to like 300 which you can raise each level feels so unnecessary.

yeah, you sorta do, actually. Why else would you go to the gym? Last time I checked, that's exactly why people go to the gym. to increase their strength, to put it bluntly (not exactly 100% accurate, but strength isn't the only attribute. there's endurance, speed, and agility as well.)

Numbers are just the way to calculate things in, oh, say a video game that relies entirely(?) on mathematical equations!




Funny thing is, that's exactly (more or less) how I want it to function in Skyrim. And guess what? it doesn't function like that, currently. The way it functions is you get to level 100 in a skill without spending perks (you can do this, don't tell me you can't) and then you specialize in your perk tree what you want to improve upon.
You cannot increase your carry weight by carrying around heavy armour, like you implied. You cannot increase your OVERALL maximum speed at all. The book idea is cool, but there is nothing at all close to this in Skyrim. Unless you count skill books, but even those don't increase intelligence, because there is no intelligence in Skyrim. Remember?

And if you choose not to spend any points in perks, then no bonus is recieved. You can have maximum one-handed without perks, and there is no difference in your ability to use one-handed weapons. It makes no sense at all.

And don't tell me that I would be playing the game wrong by not spending perk points after maximizing a skill, because that makes no sense. I'm playing the game without breaking any rules or using exploits. I'm playing it right. Am I playing it smart? No, not with the current game mechanics. But I'm not playing it WRONG.

I don't really miss attributes, they have a time and place but I think Skyrim does a good job without them.

Pick one of the taller races. You'll run faster and hit harder to boot.

I knew this was about Speed before I even clicked on it. You miss (run)speed because it was a rare attribute in RPGs. Start stacking Stam and start running for longer. Maybe it could have been done better, but it's already been done worse (TES IV) Cheers!

I thought I would miss them, but to be honest, I prefer what Beth has done with Skyrim. I am able to just go out and explore without having to worry about which attributes will or will not be raised by how much.

What about a system that replaces the "hp, mp, stamina" trio you get when you level up? What if they just let you choose to increase attribute points (which governed hp, mp, stamina, and a whole lot more) at your leisure? So you wouldn't have to level up certain skills, you just pick the attributes you want.

Why not? I mean, they already have it set up so that a pure warrior can get nothing but magicka, and never study or use a single spell. They could have done the same with attributes.

Seems to me like they are just "streamlining" the game so that the programmers don't have to try as hard.

I like how Skyrim handles skills and perks (to an extent) but the whole Magick/Health/Stamina system annoys me to no end.
I miss my attributes badly, hopefully they're still in the core of the Engine so Mods can switch the Leveling system to what Oblivion/Morrowind had.

Attributes gave races a reason to be used or not to be used, they made Birthsigns helpful and Racial powers very helpful.

I think they should leave in the three base attributes like they have it (Magicka - Health - Stamina), but they should also add in Athletics and Agility, Stength, and Intelligence. Because the number of attributes are more than doubled from the default settings, you would get to add 10 points to TWO attributes at level-up, instead of just one.

Magicka would ONLY govern how much magicka you have to spend.
Health would only govern how much HP you have.
Stamina would stay the same, except it would have no effect on how high your carrying-capacity is.

Athletics would effect how fast you move and how fast your attacks are, but it would also effect how high you can jump.

Agility would effect how quickly you change direction (side to side), and would also effect your ability to block/dodge (the higher your agility, the quicker you can raise your shield/sword to block, and the quicker you can dodge). Think of it as "reflexes" instead of agility if you must.

Strength would effect your carrying capacity, and it would also effect how much of an effect heavy armor has on your movement speed.

Intelligence would effect what level magical spells you can cast, and what level of weapon-attack techniques you would be able to perform. (As far as I know, there are no "weapon-attack techniques to learn in Skyrim, so Bethesda would have to add these. They could range from more/better killing-animations, to more effective/powerful melee attacks).

Or another idea would be to set all of these attributes I added (Athletics, Agility, Strength, and Intelligence) as skills instead of attributes. They could be in their own category (not Thief/Mage/Warrior), and they would all have perks that relate to my above suggestions. This might actually be a better route to go!

I miss attributes. I REALLY miss Athletics & Acrobatics. I want to run faster & jump higher! I knew they wouldn't be skills in the game, but I was really hoping they'd get stuck into a perk somewhere, so that we could at least choose the abilities/bonuses ...somehow, and not completely deleted.

I want my Athletics & Acrobatics. :/

There is the Steed standing stone however it only adds 100 to your carry weight max and make all worn armor weightless and prevents armor of all types from slowing you down.

Agreed. Without attributes, my characters feels very generic.

Terrible decision on Bethesda's part.

that's probably because you refuse to use shouts and are determined to be the most stubborn person on these forums.

I do miss athletics and kinda wish it was a perk tree instead of some of the less useful ones like Lock picking. However, i didn't notice the missing attributes at all until i come here and some one brings it up. While i do think attributes could have been implemented in a good way and improved on, the system they choose to do works fantastic and going back to attributes now would be a step back as far as I'm concerned.

Doesn't actually increase my speed on my khajiit, now does it?

And the whole thing about the playerscale effecting damage and speed is bullsh!t. Altmer are apparently the most skilled race because of this, that honestly, just seems like lazy programming to me.




It's not only about speed, although yes, that may be the one I miss the most. Simply because it's non-existent now.

And stacking stamina will not increase my overall maximum speed. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Somebody doesn't check the loading screens . When you level up you see Health, Magicka and Stamina, Stamina is actually Stamina and +5 Maximum Carry Weight.

Shouts basically turn every character into a battle-mage (if they're not a pure mage already). That would make my character feel even more generic.

Yeah, and there's already perks in the armour skill tree that removes the carry weight of armour.

Though, it does look like a good stone to use, since you don't have to waste perks on the 100 capacity and armour weight removal. But it still doesn't increase your maximum speed. I don't know what they were thinking when they thought making every single character you make have a set amount of speed that can't be increased. So lame.




Care to elaborate a bit more on this?

Also, I'm not suggesting that we remove perks. I actually like the perk system. I just want to include attributes in the character development as well.

I would loved to have seen a perk that taken at various lvls lowers the stamina cost for sprinting. Its not really something that makes a character faster than most rather more adapt to sprinting thus being able to run faster for longer thus outrunning easily less hardy runners.

I'd like a return of attributes to replace boring perks. e.g. +20% damage with weapon X.

Strength could boost damage, or special poisons/spells could decrease Strength and reduce damage, instead of having separate +One-Handed, +Two-Handed, +Archery effects. I can't quite explain it, but the difference between the label also effects the way these are experienced. I can see a disease which causes weakness, I can see a pair of gauntlets which improves the wearer's physical might, but I cannot get a feel for gauntlets which add +X damage when using one hand (but are 0% effective instead of twice as much when used with two hands).

Don't care about the stats but before you got every perk as you leveled any skill now it's just watered down level up everything and pick a handful.

Meh, haven't touched Skyrim in over a week without even finishing the game, just don't care about perks or any DLC anymore.