Strength, speed, endurance, intelligence, you know, those.

Sure, the system wasn't perfect in Oblivion. I especially hated the way endurance worked with the HP, so that it gave you 1/10th of your endurance per level. It forced you to level endurance as quickly as you could to maximize your HP. And don't get me started on the stat multipliers. oh god those were horrible.

Thankfully there was a mod that fixed the stat multipliers, so that leveling your [insert skill] enough times would give you points in [insert attribute]. There was a mod for this in morrowind too. I really enjoyed this mod and it made sense that your attributes should level alongside your skills.

Unfortunately I couldn't find a mod (probably because I didn't look hard enough) that fixed the endurance and intelligence annoyance. But it could have been fixed.

why do I miss attributes? Because they governed your characters stats. It's really helped you develop and customize your character to greater depths.

Strength helped you do more melee damage and carry more objects. This makes sense (although, I wish it had contributed a little to ranged damage as well). And your total fatigue (stamina).

Agility increased your fatigue and bow damage. Not all that realistic on the bow damage, but it was essential to balance gameplay mechanics, so I understand why it did so.

Speed was my favorite. Unfortunately in Skyrim, there is no difference in speed of your character and there is no way to change it. WHAT THE HELL?!

Intelligence governed your MP and effected the magic spells governed by intelligence (correct me if I'm wrong on the second part). Essential for mages, who logically would require vast amounts of intelligence to cast freakin magic. godamn.

Willpower effected the governing skills(I think), as well as magicka regeneration. And your total fatigue. Not bad. I could have sworn it affected your resistance to spells, but maybe I'm wrong.

Endurance of course governed HP and your total fatigue.

Personality was pretty useless. I never put any point into it. But hey, that doesn't mean you should scrap it. I'm sure there's a way to make it useful. In fallout I know they changed it to "charisma" and it governed how many companions you could carry around. I'm sure this would have much benefits in skyrim.

Luck wasn't all that useful either, I wish they had implemented a critical hit system governed by luck (unless I'm mistaken and they did). They did in fallout, I know that much.


Now we have some lazy, boring crap where you choose HP, MP, or Stamina each time you level up. No way to change your speed. One of the things I miss most in this dumbed down beta test.


Why were these removed? This was one of the best features in developing your character. I hate it so much that they have been scrapped, instead of improved on.

Do you know what I think they did? I think they got incredibly lazy and "streamlined" the game..

I honestly haven't noticed their absence.

They were never removed. Their effects were filtered down to the 3 current attributes and the perks.

Skyrim's system hasn't bothered me, per say, but I'm definitely missing the attribute system. Attributes really defined your character, and they did make a difference. Some would argue that this is now the perk system, but it's not the same.

Hopefully there will be leveling mods to fix this, but I'm not holding my breath. This would be a pretty drastic change to the balancing of the game.

I do miss attributes, even if I don't miss the implementation. Plenty of mods managed to implement stat gains much more seamlessly than the level-up screen and I wish Skryim's development team had considered working them into the latest installment rather than dumping them for the (imo) bland health/magicka/stamina boosts. Certainly streamlined but also dropped much of the depth which made character development in of itself interesting.

Attributes barely did anything at all.
They were just as, if not worse than SPECIAL was in Fallout 3.

Helped define a character?
Nnnnnot really, not for me.
For me it was just another 1 to 100 stat number system which barely had any impact on my character.
Never helped define anything for me.

SPECIAL in Fallout used to be (and still can be) what truly defined a character, it could make or break your character.
That was a stat system that felt important, like your characters abilities revolves around it.

TES' Attributes system were just another number system of minor increases to random stuff.
So I'm glad it's gone.
Pointless RPG mechanics is not something that helps a game.
Could it have been improved? Yes, yes it could.
Everything can be improved.
But Attributes was like the speechcraft wheel in Oblivion, a mechanic completely useless that felt more like an annoyance than something that helped gameplay. /imo

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, as it's quite clear that they are nowhere to be found.





Then tell me how to increase my speed.

Press the sprint button.

Or, if you're feeling fancy, you could always change your character scale.

I miss attributes, but not as they were implanted in Oblivion, at least to how they pertain to leveling up. But I do miss them . . .

It's not that we need attributes back, it is that we need the control of our leveling back. Every time I sell my loot I am forced to level, or every time I read a skill book that you HAVE to read before taking (building a library) you are forced to level.

Oblivions system was more complicated, but it was also better for those with the know how and patience.

I agree with you on the movement speed part of it, but thats only because, to my knowledge, there are no perks to increase speed in Skyrim. ( I could be wrong as I do not have them all memorized yet.) But aside from that, the perk system provides just as much if not more diversity for characters. There are a LOT of perks. Are you sure what you are going through isn't just a lack of complete familiarity with the leveling system? Because if you vested that much time into doing the stat calculations and so forth with Morrowind and Oblivion I can certainly understand that.

I like the implementation of the sprint. Especially how it drains your stamina fairly quickly. However, that is not the same as speed. Speed is a passive stat, that would not only increase your walk/run speed, but your sprint speed as well.

So don't try to avoid the argument with this blanket statement.






I might as well console-kill all of my enemies while I'm at it. Oh wait, that's cheating.




Perhaps, perhaps not. I do remember strength, endurance, and speed to be the most important thing your character needed if you were a melee class (besides the skills, obviously). And the mod I had installed leveled stats when you leveled skills, so obviously I'm going to be leveling skills. Without strength, not only would your damage be gimped, but you wouldn't be able to carry around much (like that heavy armour you have on). And endurance obviously was needed for the HP.

Speed seemed to be skill that every class needed. Archers and mages especially.

Still, it's better to improve on the system rather than just scrap it entirely and replace it with a worse system.

I haven't notice their absence either. Perk system is much better in clearly defining what it is you getting when you level up. I applaud Bethesda for thinking out side the box and not sticking to the old fomula of whats expected of RPGs but instead trying something different and it turns out it works really well.

Dark Souls really did a good job with thier attributes. Wish Skyrim was alike. Instead of the 4 year old choice of three different upgrades

I miss attributes too. It added depth, however little it was. The whole "be who you want to be" thing was never limited with the previous system - you just chose who you wanted to be, and then got bonuses in those stats and attributes to help guide you on your way. While I can kind of reason, I also would like to see some of it back.

The only Attribute I seriously miss so far is Strength. I dislike Skyrim's Encumbrance system. I miss seeing my characters gradually being able to carry more as they got stronger.

I dont miss them

What I would like to see, is return of attributes, but have them level up with the governing skills. Perks would just have to be balanced, probably gimped a little bit. This way if you choose to take a perk that increases, say, your one-handed damage, you have to get to uhhh, whatever level it is, (which in turn, would increase your strength and passively increase your damage already) and taking the perk wouldn't overpower your character.

This way, if you choose not to take the perk, (save it for something else perhaps), your melee damage still increases (not ungodly amounts) so that you still stand a chance (after all, getting to level 100 in your one-handed should say something about how much damage you dish out. even if you never take the perks that increase damage. even if you don't take any perks at all. this is logic.). Not that I wouldn't take the perk, of course. It would just have to be gimped slightly so that it wouldn't overpower your character, that's all. Gimped just enough so that the passive damage increase from your strength would balance out the gimping of the perk. Makes sense, no?

You could easily apply this to everything else. I haven't thought it all through yet, and there might need to be modifications with the skill trees and such, but it sound entirely plausible to implement.

Except they completely removed some of the features and logic was lost on them when it came to passive bonuses from simply leveling up a skill(see my post I made after yours, that I was unable to originally address directly towards you. it dealt with strength and melee damage and the perk system).

I too miss attributes or even chosing major and minor skills. Bethesda have taken away this choice and 'streamlined' it down. When i say streamlined, yeah to do mean dumbed. Previous level scaling and perks were not flawless and could do with alot of work to improve, Beths said they were going to fix this. They havent, they have swapped one bad idea for a different one.

The perk thing is horrible, it svcked in Jason and the Argonauts and it doesn't work in Skyrim. I could, possibly have lived with it if they didn't put the perks in a 'tree' so that if you see one higher up you might like or think it may help and you have the appropriate skill level you still can't fecking buy it until you have bought the crappier lower level ones that you may not want just so you can light up your options.

As for the leveling. Well so much for play any charcter you want. Anything you want except being an enchanter/alchemist/bard because you will get your ass kicked unless you pour your perks and time into leveling combat skills. I am begining to resent using perks on 'fun' things like making my potions stronger because i am too worried about making sure my character will be strong enough to take on the various high level opponents. They have ruined the aspects like enchanting and speech craft that i viewed as fun extras to my main game or character. I am tired of jumping 3 levels everytime i head to a town to sell my loot.

I don't miss them.

I do miss acrobatics, though. I liked the moon-hopping.

i miss attributes but then i played pen and paper dnd for a long time. i loved all the old dnd style rpgs.

i liked seeing the numbers next to the char.

tho how id do it is id make 18 max in any one stat.

only way to get beyond 18 is with special magical equipment or thru a special quest to "unlock" your potential in a specific stat to allow it to go beyond "human" means.

these super stats would allow for unique and otherwise impossible gameplay moments both in core gameplay mechanics, and in th quest dialogue options.

what i get out of my rambling is are these stats needed? no...but they easily provide a skeletal framework and at the same time a reference point to work with. they are nice to have.

I think I understand what you are saying. You just want attributes and hae them linked to skills like they were in Oblivion. I guess it really is just how you want to play the game then. Because for me, it really doesn't matter if the attributes level with skills or not. If I play a rogue I'm only gonna increase my health and stamina anyway and only choose perks that would benefit that class, as in Oblivion I would increase agility and endurance primarily with just a little in STR and SPD. It seems like the end result of both systems would be the same, with the only difference in choosing health to be increased by 10 or choosing to increase endurance thus increasing your health by 10. Regardless, I do hope they make a Steed constelation so we can increase whatever the equivalent of acrobatics and speed are.

i miss them too, it was good in daggerfall (when you leveld up you got to distribtue attribute points into any attributes regardless of what skills you use, i think, its been awile), but they broke it (more) in morrownd. it s very simple to fix (add to daggerfall's system by making them actually apperent in the world, NV had it this way [lots of checks for attributes, and luck played an actual role) and very stupid to remove

Attributes are just leftovers from the old pen and paper RPGs. This is just a transition phase. Elder Scrolls will continue to evolve into a more organic experience rather than statistics.