I love grinding.

I don't like grinding if it doesn't make sense.

Merchant skill in oblivion for example should have been based off of the money you earned from items you sold rather then how many thousands of things you sold. athletics leveled too slow to ever make a real difference.

I hope that the game will have some more balanced leveling for the things you do.

True. Using a 50 pound weight is going to get you stronger faster than if you used a 5 lb weight.

Probably. Most of the people who commit crimes get caught because they don't know how to be a master thief.

YAY FOR COLOR CODING!

You miss one of the worst parts of recent gaming history? Yeah, I don't. Sorry, grinding is something you avoid like the plague if you can, it's not good game design. It can work to an extent, I don't feel WoW gets too boring, though that's mostly because Blizzard has done much to make questing more fun and reduce grinding as much as humanly possible. I'm glad that Skyrim seems to take a more logical approach to levelling.

What you use is what levels up, if you try to be a jack of all trades and raise all your skills to 100, I'll wager that's not going to happen, or at least take a very long time. In the meantime, you'll be prettya wful at everything.

My character will take a more sensible approach, he'll wear a certain type of armor, focus on swords and daggers with destruction magic as backup. It's manageable and it ensures I'm skilled at what I actually use while everything else that I never do is something I'm not good at.

Personally it doesn't matter to me. I've never skill grinded and think no less of those who do. It isn't a multiplayer game, so I don't know if we can really call anything an exploit. Instead, we just play by our own self-imposed restrictions and mock the impurity of those who are less hardcoe than ourselves! :grad:

Biggest problem about Oblivion grinding was that even grinding was buggy/unbalanced. You learn by challenging yourself, and casting the cheapest illusion lightspell to grind from skill level 93 to 94 makes no sense at all. No olympic runner is where he is today by doing the morning jogs he started out with. No chefs came from mixing cereal with milk over and over and over again.

Will I miss it? No. I'll shout out loud, like I do in FO3: "Why the hell didn't I ......."

I do this in Morrowind and Oblivion and I hate it. Good riddance.

Frankly I won't miss it. I hated having to grind my levels just to be able be as strong as the level I was supposed to be. If I'm 100 in Destruction, I don't want to have the the same health as when I started. I like the idea of having the ability to put the points towards more magic, health, fatigue etc. Anyway, they said that all skills count toward leveling up, but the lesser levels count less so as you specialize (IE use all destruction) you will level up faster. I think this will force us to have a few specialties but unless there is oblivion level scaling, we'll be fine. After all, if I'm 100 Destruction, I better damn well be able to frag a bandit with a single fireball.

Don't we still level by doing things? I don't get the point of this thread?

They removed the fact that you could set skills you will never use as major skills to prevent leveling at all. Now all skill increases count to your overall and you can't keep your level artificially low.

If you have evidence that they removed grinding and not exploits, then please do post.

How is everyone going to miss it? ie not do it themselves? You can just not do that in both MW or Ob already.

You will gain skill level in skills you use. This is how it is described in all released information on the game. This means the more you use the skill... over and over. you go up levels in it. How is this concept different than grinding? what alternative system are you thinking is in the game?

What information is anyone reading that I am not about leveling?

edit: what the 2 above posters have said. I'm kind of confused

I will not miss it, because I never did it. It would take out the fun from the game.

That is true, I've never understood why people complain about balance as much as they do in single player games.

I mean yeah, obviously if one weapon type is just vastly superior to all others, that's not a good thing. But having exploits or being able to become incredibly overpowered by grinding or enchanting your gear or whatever isn't really a problem in my eyes. There is no multiplayer for it to make a difference, if you don't like becoming to powerfull, just don't. It's really not a difficult concept, self control is all you need.

To illustrate with an example, I've forgotten who said this, but someone mentioned that bringing back Morrowind's armor system /As in, separate pices for everything, left and right pauldrons etc.) would cause imbalance because all the gear could be enchanted and thus you would potentially become too powerfull. To that I say: So what? What's the problem? Just don't do that and you're golden.

Personally, I'd prefer that system back, it allows for more control over how my character looks. I might enchant it all and become a god among men, or I might not. The point is that the choice is mine, it affects nobody else. If you really feel that your accomplishments are cheapened because someone else can just exploit their way to incredible power, I have to ask, why do you care? What you do in your game is your business, what I do in mine is my business.

I don't see how you shouldn't be able to grind in Skyrim. It's the way Bethesda's skill system works. Only that you will level up no matter which skills you grind. But to me grinding is one of the main flaws of the leveling System used in TES games that can never be fixed (and no fun at all, but necessary if you don't want to feel like an idiot), so I hope something like Oblivion XP will be possible for Skyrim without the need of a script extender. The sooner, the better.

According to the GI article they removed leveling exploits. I'm still of the opinion they did something to curtail pointless grinding. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll be off doing the same goofy 'damage health 1 point for 1 sec on self' crap.

I think they mean that in Morrowind and Oblivion you can train your non-major skills for 20 skill increases before leveling to get a +5,+5,+5 bonus to your attributes.
In Skyrim every skill will count to level up so it's impossible to exploit the system that way.

I'm actually glad that they removed this because it was ridiculous.

I don't like to grind or having to do stupid **** to get a "perfect character".

Grinding isn't a leveling exploit. imo You've earned that skill fair and square from my perspective.

But those little details like using a short summon spell to more quickly gain levels will be plugged up. And the exp gain per spell is more complex, making summon scamp for 1 sec vs. summon daedroth for 60sec make sense.

You could run around spamming either. I get the feeling both would ultimately work out the same in terms of levels gained, not in the per spell cast sense, but magnitude and duration come into play.

I'm not sure if grinding is really an exploit as they're referring to in the article (so I'm not sure if they'll be "fixing" it). You are still technically training a skill. I think they're just talking about how grinding minor skills is used to level attributes best, which will be fixed since there will be no minor skills.

I'll constantly cast Heal Minor Wounds as I run around just because I can, but other than that I don't really go out of my way to grind. I don't think they'll remove/nerf grinding. It just won't be necessary to get the best level-up attribute bonuses (because those won't be an issue).

They just need to balance out exp gain. Skills need to progress at balanced levels (like Restoration being really slow) and magnitude needs to be considered in exp gain. Higher cost spells give more exp. Larger barters give more exp. Higher damage with a sword gives more exp. Jumping higher gives more exp. Etc.

lol i find myself doing that in fallout 3 and fallout new vegas (even though there is no athletics or acrobatics skills in fallout)

I think this has been done since SMB on NES. We, the gamers, believe that if you jump repeatedly you get to your destination faster and safer than if you ran normally lol.

And you get a level warning that you upgraded to Apprentice in Sneak and your game is paused? :shakehead:

Ugh, I always hated having to balance my custom class around specific skills and then grinding specific ones for a decent HP pool. I personally won't miss it. It was a system that either needed a major rework or a removal.

I wont miss it.
Although I will still keep jumping to my destinations.
I just can't help it, I'm not doing it for the lvls, I'm just addicted to jumping :rolleyes:

Me. I use OOO and use my character like a normal person and am having to troubles at all.

There is no way to 'fix' the grinding issue, that's why the whole system doesn't work at all for me. How can a computer tell whether the skill the player just used was necessary and critical to overcome a certain situation or not? Even for a human dungeon master that would be hard to decide (there have been PnP RPGs around with a similar system long before ES games used it, Stormbringer and Cthulhu for example). In Skyrim you'll end up spamming spells and running against walls just like in MW or Oblivion to raise your skills quickly.

Now some people come with the old argument 'if you don't like don't do it'. But I play games for a challenge. Role-playing is nice, quests are nice, but I also want to become stronger and 'win' the game (= become a powerful/skilled warrior/mage/thief). If I don't grind I'll level up and become stronger much slower. That is stupid from my perspective. It's like I play Doom and find the biggest gun in the game and then I don't pick it up because I feel the game would become too easy. No one would do that in a game like Doom because it would be idiotic and because usually you need everything at your disposal to survive/win the game. A game should offer a challenge and make it hard for the player to overcome the challenge. But if he does overcome the challenge and uses all means available to achieve his goal he should be rewarded. The TES leveling system has nothing to do with that, it's about doing stupid, repetitive things to be able to overcome your challenges (which are no challenges anymore because the difference between a Minotaur that kills you and a dead Minotaur is just a bit of time spent with grinding. Not rewarding, not challenging, not fun. Or does it feel like an achievement to you if you cast 50 minor heal spells in succession without any purpose and get the 'Your Restoration skill increased' message? 'Yes, I did it! I pressed the 'c' key for two minutes!' Wow.



That wouldn't help much. The higher your acrobatics skill, the higher you can jump. If jumping higher gives more exp it would only help people with a high acrobatics skill, which would have the opposite effect of the one that is desired. Leveling up acrobatics would become easier the higher your acrobatics skill is (which would probably be evened out by the increased time it takes to raise a high skill value). Same goes for spells and everything else.