Mixing of Tamriel races : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:29 pm

Is there any history of the various races having mixed and produced children? As they live so close to each other as they do in the various provinces, it seems almost odd if there haven't been inter-racial marriages and children. Especially for the human races Imperial, Breton and Nords. But also the varous Elf-races. And probably some instances of Elf/human, too. Is there any reference to this in any lore?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:44 am

Is there any history of the various races having mixed and produced children? As they live so close to each other as they do in the various provinces, it seems almost odd if there haven't been inter-racial marriages and children. Especially for the human races Imperial, Breton and Nords. But also the varous Elf-races. And probably some instances of Elf/human, too. Is there any reference to this in any lore?

The standard book on this topic would be http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/notesracial.shtml, which should answer most of your questions.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:39 am

I'm not a race-buff, but in fact, there is no real lore about mixed races, afaik. Thats one very unrealistic point in The Elder Scrolls. Maybe a human/mer hybrid is not possible, but a Altmer/Bosmer hybrid have to work. There were a few examples, where different races live together. The last one was at the Shivering Isles, I guess. I'm speaking of the sidequest with the amulet and this knight... don't know exactly.

Edit: Thanks for the link Nalion

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:59 am

The Grey Prince in the Arena in Oblivion was a half-Orc half-Imperial, and though it isn't "proven", Dagail and Eronor, and it's hinted that Dagail and Eronor have the same father, but different mothers (Dagail being Bosmer and Eronor being Dunmer) since the children in the Elder Scrolls universe tend to take after the racial appearance of the mothers.

Also, the Bretons were created by years of Mer breeding with Nord Women and their offspring mixing with other humans.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:06 am

Thanks, that book did answer quite a few of my questions. And I had forgotten about the Grey Prince in Oblivion - he is a perfect example of that being possible. Some combination might be difficult due to big genetic or cultural differences, but at least the human races should be easily interbreedable (is that a word?).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:45 am

Well the humans can also mate with Mer too. I think the Kahijit and Argonians are the only ones that can't be interbred with the other races probably due to the fact that they're animals and not humanoids like the Elves and Humans.

You know, this has nothing to do with the topic, but I once roleplayed a character who was born to a Spriggan Mother and Breton Father. I gave him green hair and downloaded Spell Tomes to give him the ability to summon a bear. I'm not saying it's possible for Spriggans and Mortals to breed, but it was cool to pretend they could.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:39 pm

Yes, I would love to be able to play a character that was a mix of two races. Maybe being able to decide who's your father and mother, and then see how your character will look like. Anyway, that is a tad off topic, but at least I know it wouldn't be against the lore.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:52 pm

Khajiit are compatible with men and mer too, I think.

But perhaps socially awkward.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:47 pm

Khajiit are compatible with men and mer too, I think.

But perhaps socially awkward.

This.

Khajiit are a bit odd. Their subraces depends on the Phases of the Moons, not the mixing of Chromosomes for one. They also range from 3 foot elven creatures to massive war tigers.

So your father could be a giant cat, your mother a 3 foot elf with a tail, your sister a small house-cat, and your brother could be the one that appears in Oblivion.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:09 pm

Well, AFAIK, Bosmer and Khajiit are related (at least according to Khajiit lore) so in theory (bos) mer and Khajiit should be interbreedable. However, not much (i.e., nothing I could find) is mentioned in how far both species have evolved since their creation and thus grown apart to the point of not being interbreedable anymore.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:22 am

Well, AFAIK, Bosmer and Khajiit are related (at least according to Khajiit lore) so in theory (bos) mer and Khajiit should be interbreedable. However, not much (i.e., nothing I could find) is mentioned in how far both species have evolved since their creation and thus grown apart to the point of not being interbreedable anymore.

The whole evolving thing doesn't really seem to happen in Tamriel the way it does on Earth. If a species changes it's usually by magical means and almost always because of a God of Daedric Prince's whim. In fact, almost all of the noticeable changes have been curses of some form.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:28 am

I can see why most races shouldn't be able to reproduce with other races. But i find it messed up that Bretons and Imperials can't. To me they look almost the same.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:12 pm

Forgot about that. Okay, taking evolution out of the equasion, I still wonder.

That is strange. Bretons are more or less a mule race (metaphorically speaking) but still able to procreate. But not with their "ancestor" race (Imperials and Nords are basically the same race, yes? AFAIK their origin is the same.) That would also mean Bretons can't crossbreed with Mer? Hmmm.... :blink:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:58 pm

I can see why most races shouldn't be able to reproduce with other races. But i find it messed up that Bretons and Imperials can't. To me they look almost the same.

Um... they can. From the link in Nalion's post:

After much anolysis of living specimens, the Council long ago determined that all "races" of elves and humans may mate with each other and bear fertile offspring.

That presumably includes Bretons, regardless of whether you count them as elves or humans or somewhere in between.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:49 am

Thanks Helena, that makesa a lot more sense. :tops:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:08 am

Khajiit are compatible with men and mer too, I think.

They are especially compatible with young Dunmer females.

Then again, anything is compatible with young Dunmer females.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:21 am

I'm not a race-buff, but in fact, there is no real lore about mixed races, afaik. Thats one very unrealistic point in The Elder Scrolls. Maybe a human/mer hybrid is not possible, but a Altmer/Bosmer hybrid have to work. There were a few examples, where different races live together. The last one was at the Shivering Isles, I guess. I'm speaking of the sidequest with the amulet and this knight... don't know exactly.

Edit: Thanks for the link Nalion

If that was the case then there would be no such thing as a Breton. The Bretons are half human and half elf, or human and of elf blood.

Also, it was noted that after the fall of the Ayleid Empire and during their extermination, many of them fled to Valenwood, and other places with elven population, where they interbred with the native elven species.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:10 am

If that was the case then there would be no such thing as a Breton. The Bretons are half human and half elf, or human and of elf blood.

Also, it was noted that after the fall of the Ayleid Empire and during their extermination, many of them fled to Valenwood, and other places with elven population, where they interbred with the native elven species.

Note, the traits of the father are very subtle at best. It did takes centuries of elf and human interbreeding before bretons came into existance

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:19 am

While it's not very relevant, you did ask about interracial marriages. In Oblivion, Heinrich Oaken-Hull (Nord) and a bosmer woman whose name escapes me are married, much to the dismay of the township of Anvil.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:12 am

Note, the traits of the father are very subtle at best. It did takes centuries of elf and human interbreeding before bretons came into existance

Regardless, there is lore and marriages between the races (have) exist(ed).

Earilier (Pre-Alessian), it would have been more like slave [censored], as humans were slaves to the elves before the rise of St. Alessia in Tamriel. Bretons may have been the result (the sins of the father passed unto the son).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:33 am

While it's not very relevant, you did ask about interracial marriages. In Oblivion, Heinrich Oaken-Hull (Nord) and a bosmer woman whose name escapes me are married, much to the dismay of the township of Anvil.

Yes, that is true. But to they disaprove because they are of different races, or because they don't like the person in question?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:46 am

Yes, that is true. But to they disaprove because they are of different races, or because they don't like the person in question?

She's a bosmer. Nobody likes Bosmer, so what do you expect?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:33 am

Since we're enumerating the mixed races, I'd like to politely point out that the prevailing theory has it that Helseth has a Breton father. Hence why his first arena of politics was in Wayrest and why he was willing to clip his ears to look more human. 'Course the two could be unrelated.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:40 am

Since we're enumerating the mixed races, I'd like to politely point out that the prevailing theory has it that Helseth has a Breton father. Hence why his first arena of politics was in Wayrest and why he was willing to clip his ears to look more human. 'Course the two could be unrelated.

He clipped his other ear, after the first got clipped from an accident or something like that, and wanted both to be even. Well, that's how the story goes, if I remember correctly. Can't find the bit of text that says that.