I can't really answer questions about Oblivion or Bash, and I'm not the world's expert on Mash either. I can only speak authoritatively on mlox.

mlox and Mash operate completely differently. mlox is based on rules that I, and others who have helped greatly, have entered into the rule-base. It's like a miniature expert system that encapsulates knowledge about how plugins are supposed to work together. mlox does not look inside plugins to discover dependencies, it has to be taught about them by entering rules. Mash works completely differently. It looks at the MAST records in the header of the plugin to discover which masters the plugin depends on. So when mlox says that a plugin requires something, it's usually, as I mentioned above, because the author of the plugin mentions in their readme that the plugin requires some other resource. Mash on the other hand can only go by the data it finds inside plugins.

In the case of "Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp", the rule in the mlox's rule-base looks like this:

[Patch] Use "Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp" when using Book Jackets with Uvirith's Legacy. (Ref: "Uvrith's Legacy_beta_README.txt")Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp[ALL Uvirith's Legacy_BETA1.10.esp	 [ANY [ANY Librarian with Jackets & Rotate BM Trib.esp		   Librarian with Jackets BM Trib.esp]	  [ALL [ANY Book Jackets - Morrowind - BookRotate.esp			Book Jackets - Morrowind.esp]		   [ANY Book Jackets - Tribunal - BookRotate.esp			Book Jackets - Tribunal.esp]		   [ANY Book Jackets - Bloodmoon - BookRotate.esp			Book Jackets - Bloodmoon.esp]]]]

It's a bit complicated boolean (logic) expression, but what it means is: if you have "Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp" activated, then you should also have activated some combination of plugins described by the following boolean expression, and vice versa. So for example, the rule is satisfied if you have "Uvirith's Legacy_BETA1.10.esp" plus "Librarian with Jackets BM Trib.esp" plus "Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp", to make them compatible. Or you could have "Uvirith's Legacy_BETA1.10.esp" plus "Book Jackets - Morrowind.esp", "Book Jackets - Tribunal.esp", "Book Jackets - Bloodmoon.esp" and the patch "Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp", and that should work too. One reason for the complication is that the Librarian mod include the book jacket functionality, so if you want to go with the Librarian mod, you don't also need the Book Jackets plugins.

I'm using version .55, didn't know there was a newer version. I'll upgrade to .57. Thanks JM!

Edit: Upgraded to 0.57, works perfectly! Thanks again JM.

John Moonsugar-

Thanks for taking the time to explain. As I stated this would not be the case with Oblivion and why I'm so confused. With Oblivion if one mod needed another mod to load (whether that be the other mod is an esp or esm) then that esp is almost always directly dependent upon that other esp/esm. I really cannot think of a time when that is not the case.

there is a benefit to this. It makes it really easy to see what is missing. In fact often the game will not load without the missing master (be it esp or esm).

I was told by someone I have learned a lot from that the great thing about Morrowind over Oblivion is that there is not the need for endless patching (often why many esp are dependent upon other esp in oblivion). Now, however, I'm very leery. What does this mean if I did try and load the Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp without the other bookjacket esp files also loaded? Would this result in errors that would be readily seen? Would there be no effect? Would the game load at all?

In a sense to me then these esp files are dependent upon each other - just not directly detected by the available tools and so I fear that without available tools to detect that relationship one needs to have to take constant notes about what relates to what. Further it would seem that this would result in constant problems with mod users who do not understand why their game does not work ... and yet I don't see anywhere near as many threads asking that here as I do with Oblivion.

As I understand it then mlox is the only tool (other than RTFM) that does attempt to inform the user of this 'more casual' dependency.

whew - this is much different.

Dude, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaay overthinking this. Your friend is right. MW needs less patching. But, different tools are needed for different purposes. The game won't load with a missing .ESM. Missing .ESPs will load, but the mod won't function properly. Just because an .ESP is needed doesn't mean it is truly dependent, like a master.

As for noob users, that's what readmes are for.

Overthinking?!?

I'm Just asking questions. And you answered the question - that the mod won't function properly if the casually dependent esp is not present. so thanks.

Before, however, when I was not more precise about my language and writing as any Oblivion forum reader would easily understand you guys climbed all over me for getting a few things wrong. Now when I slow down and go over the terms more carefully I'm overthinking. ok

Actually I tried and failed at understanding Morrowind modding last year and now I think I found one of the main differences between morrowind and the other two (Obl & F3) that I didn't realize was an issue, so it has been a learning experience for me. Both the other games very much have esp that are dependent upon other esp. Very common - this is the odd game out on that.

Further - the responses I've been getting are strange here. To me anyway. If you really read what I've asked here and the few other threads my questions are very much attempts at precise questions. I never asked why mlox doesn't function like Wrye Mash - I asked how to interpret mlox when compared to information that Wry Mash is also giving me (or in this case not giving me).

Further still - I'm a veteran at running heavily modded Oblivion and Fallout 3 - and I mean heavily modded. I'm hardly bursting into threads with no respect asking why my 254 load list and every heavy replacer under the sun is not working right out of the box (or off the dl page) from the start, without testing, without asking precise questions and learning the basics. So there are a few things that I've yet to learn that is particular to just morrowind. forgive me.

Over thinking though hmmm what next ... over-reacting?

Sorry. I guess subtle humor is lost on the Internet sometimes. MW is nowhere near as complex as either OB or FO3. I have modded all three games. I just think of it this way. Wrye is good for sorting out conflicts (real conflicts) and building leveled lists. TESTool is good for cleaning mods and merging objects. MLox is good for load order suggestions. If Mlox notices (according to it's rules) a file that should be there, it let let you know. But, that's it.

We have a new update for the rule-base: mlox-data_2010-03-04.7z
Available from the usual place: http://code.google.com/p/mlox/downloads/list

Thanks to Dragon32, Amenophis and Vharlak.

New
Blasphemous Revenants [Fliggerty]
Cloth Additions 1.1 [Max a.k.a. ~NOBODY~]
Daggerfall Book Collection [Michael Damon, aka Launcelot]
Extra Artifacts [ ]
MMOs Tomb Loot [Magic Motor Ola (?)]
Starfire's NPC - Hilgya Exp1 Addon [baikanp]

Updated
Assassins Armory [Michael 'HelioS' Bennett]
Better Necomancer Amulet [Michael "HelioS" Bennett]
Hold it [Danae]
LGNPC [Less Generic NPCs Project]
NazoX9's Guards 1.0 [NazoX9]

says there is a problem with the file when you go to download...

Hmm, well Google appears to be having problems. Let's give them a little while to see if they can sort them out. Hopefully they'll get it working again soon.

Hi!

I was installing some mods to make pearl-diving more enjoyable and rewarding, and I found these mods:

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6991
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=2674
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7144
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8210

And here are the rules I have found for these mods:

1)If the Morrowind Crafting version of More Gems is to be used (MoreGems for MC.esp) it should (obviously) load after Morrowind Crafting.
2)If Pearls Enhanced is going to be used in conjunction with Resources Enhanced, the compatibility patch, available from the same page as Pearls Enhanced, (Pearls Enhanced - ResEn patch v2.esp\Pearls Enhanced - ResEn patch.esp) should load after both Pearls Enhanced and Resources Enhanced.
3)MGP PearlsEnhanced.esp\MGP PearlsEnhancedB.esp from More Gems Expansion should load after both MoreGems for MC.esp\MoreGems.esp and Pearls Enhanced - Colored Pearls Add-on.esp\Pearls Enhanced.esp, if they are on the loading list. (The first one is from More Gems and the second one is from Pearls Enhanced)

I hope I haven't made any mistakes

Thanks for the info. Pearls Enhanced is already in mlox, so (2) is covered. More Gems isn't though, I'll add it to my (never diminishing) list

back up and working now...

Hello, again.

1- Undeads arise from death from Arcimaestro Antares is not compatible with The Undead 3.0 from Neoptolemus.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/847583-relz-the-undead-v30/page__st__60__p__15461806&#entry15461806

2- The most recent version of Undeads Arise from Death is http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6777
This version incorporates the mod http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=136072&id=7385, so you have to disable it.

Thanks! We'll probably have a new rule-base update in a day or two.

We have a new release of the rule-base: mlox-data_2010-03-15.7z
Available from the usual place: http://code.google.com/p/mlox/downloads/list

Thanks to contributions from Dragon32 and Amenophis:

NEW
Adventurer Clothing [kalikut]
Battle Skirts [Cutthroat Mods]
Cutthroat Armory [Cutthroat Mods]
Dragonbone Complete Set [Jayson]
IceBradyHurdy_RobeReplacer [CanadianIce, Brady228 & Hurdy Gurdy]
Knights of Tamriel [Jeremy McGuinn]
Merged MCA Files [elfwanderer]
Morag Tong Compatible MCA [Eisenfaust]
MCA 5.2 Additional Companions [Grant McDorman]
MCA Adventurer Clothing Addon [Marbred]
MCA Chainmail Addon [Marbred]
MCA Corinthian Helms and Arsenal Addon [Marbred]
MCA CM Armory Addon [Marbred]
MCA Dragonbone Addon [Marbred]
MCA Elven Armor Addon [Marbred]
MCA - HELLUVA Wicked Weapons Patch [Fliggerty]
MCA 5.1 Lighter [Jeoshua]
MCA Lite [Marbred]
MCA 5.2 - Lite [MrE_Man]
MCA Names 5.2 [AJB4]
MCA - NoM Courtesan Patch [Malius]
MCA - NoM Food and Drink Patch [Malius]
MCA Salusa Staves Addon [Marbred]
MCA Script Fix [ ]
MCA Suran Archery Addon [Marbred]
MCA Tamriel Knights Addon [Marbred and Tarnsman]
MCA Wizard Hats Addon [Marbred]
mca_5.2_vivec_redux [fleck1974]
MCA Zero Town Baddies Alpha [Qawsed Asap]
PW_Redesigned Vivec-Vivec_Expansion.esp [Pseron Wyrd]
Rare Robes Collection + Dwemer Robe FIX [Xanondorf]
Real Katana Lite [iamnone]
Redesigned Vivec [Piratelord]
Rose Cottage/Wayfarer's Rest Landscape Fix [Tabula Rasa]
Suran Archery Tradehouse [Wizbang]
Telvanni Robe Version 2 [MP*Canus]
The Undead [Neoptolemus]
Unofficial Morrowind Comes Alive - City Attack Patches [businessman332211]
Vivec Expansion [Hoghead the Horrible]
Wizard Hats [Daduke]

UPDATED
Dwarves! 1.3 [Tarnsman]
Elders of Vvardenfell [Tarnsman]
Indoril Greaves [Smite_Plight]
Japanese House mod V1.4 [Sniper Daria]
LGNPC [Less Generic NPCs Project]
MCA - Morrowind Comes Alive [Neoptolemus]
MCAFix [Aeven]
MPP [TES Morrowind Community, ThePal, Baldurdash, and quorn]
Undeads Arise from Death is 1.5

Great tool! I just used it and reordered based on its suggestions.

One issue: I'm using a fix for the missing Imperial Templar Pauldrons mesh, mlox claimed that the latest MCP 1.6 fixes it (and this is listed in the latest MCP update readme). However, the MCP doesn't fix it for my game, so I still have to use the .esp fix (Clean Templar Fix 1.1).

Has anyone else experienced this? Should the rule for mlox be updated if the documentation for MCP is incorrect?

It's fixed by the MPP v1.6.4 (and also the v1.6.5 beta), not MCP. That's also what's stated in the latest mlox_base.txt.

FYI: MCP fixes MW engine code bugs; MPP fixes errors found in the base esm master plugins.

I mistyped: I have both. MPP 1.6.4 claims in the update readme to address the Imperial Templar Pauldrons but it doesn't fix it for my game, requiring a separate fix.

The pauldrons are fixed in my game and I only run the MPP without any additional Imperial Templar Pauldron fixes.

You've likely got another mod loading that's undone the fix.
MPP, being an esm, will always load ahead of esp mods which can reverse / negate the fixes in the MPP. If you can identify which mod is causing that in your load order, we could update the rules base for mlox with a conflict warning.

I unchecked the only armor mod I was using, HG Armour Rebalance: and the MPP fix worked. So a conflict warning ought to be included.

Just a update for http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=856 from Patrograd

Quote from http://slartibartfast1.webs.com/downloads.htm:

"Annastia Fix - This is an alternative esp to use instead of the one supplied with the original Annastia version 3.3 Mod. The original contains dirty landscape references which cause conflicts in the area of Balmora and Caldera. The fixed esp has had the dirty references removed."

It this a final solution for the incompatibilities outlined in the MLOX rules?

The credits for this information goes to http://morrowind2009.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/step-10-add-major-new-lands/.

Do you have a link? I can't find anything called "HG Armour Rebalance" / "HG Armor Rebalance" using ES Search.
Thanks for the info.

It could be HG Armour Balance, available on http://www.elricm.com/nuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=2281.

It's actually a mod I downloaded like 3 years ago that I usually played with, so it may be "defunct" online now. I couldn't find it presently at PES, for example. So maybe a warning isn't necessary except for people like me who don't update their mods.

Edit: it's the one linked to by bjam (by Holy Handgrenade).

Thanks guys.