Thanks for your patience. I got the correct version and everything is running smoothly. I won't worry about the GIANTS thing for now, but I will keep checking back at the wiki. MLOX is a great program and I appreciate your hard work and time.

No problemo. Thanks for trying mlox.

John, somebody recently ran into problems running LAL and the Romance mod. He fixed it by tweaking his load order. I don't know if you want to include this into your program, but the load order should be:

Romance
Romance follow (if loaded)
LAL (or my update - both should not be loaded at the same time)
Fliggerty's integration patch.

I can get you the file names if you need them.

That would help, if it's not too much trouble! Thanks.

(Also, a short description of the problem would help too.)

From Fliggerty's readme: "...what this mod does is replace the blacked out love scene from TRM with the lover selection process." Without his patch, you cannot use LAL's features with your romantice partner from the Romance mod - any other NPC is fine, but not the one you're romancing I believe. Or you could, but you had to use LAL's system and not the Romance one. Here are the file names:

Romance_v37EV.esp <-The main romance mod.
Romance_Follow_v10EV.esp <-Romance follow mod.
Mr Cellophane's Lovers and Legends V0.esp <-Cello's original mod.
L&L Addon.esp <-My add-on. Remember that this should NOT be loaded with Cello's original mod. Doing so could cause doubling.
L&L_TRM_patch.esp <-Fligg's integration patch.

Let me know if you need anything else. Thanks.

I've been troubleshooting my installation and keeping Jac posted, this is what I've compiled. The load order problems include, but are not limited to:

- getting a 'your romance is over' message every time the game is started
- upon initiating the *second* session gold is removed from the player's inventory and the screen fades to black, even when 'prostitution add-on is not loaded. Player must ctrl-alt-delete-to close the game.
- CTD
- Initiating a session with the player's actual romantic partner results in breaking the romance off.

From the Romance mod readme:
"R o m a n c e Requires Bloodmoon and BetterBodies . . . the Bisixual and Prostitution mods are not compatible with one another. Both .esps work with the Romance Mod and Romance_follow, but you will have to choose either Prostitution or Bisixual, not both."

From the Lovers & Legends and The Romance Mod Integration VERSION: 1.0 readme:
"This supports the TRM prostitution patch, but not the Bisixual patch."

From the Mr Cellophane's Lovers And Legends V0 readme:
"This mod requires Morrowind Script Extender (MSE)" -- included in package, but not updated

From the Mr Cellophane's Lovers And Legends addon by Jac and Axel readme:
"This mod requires a working copy of Cellophane's Legends and Lovers module to work. The exe files and his readme are not included in this package . . . it is still not possible for same six liasons."

Note: I have not tried the 'prostitution' or 'bisixual' add-ons for Romance so my information regarding that is nil.
Here's a working load order for all the pertinent mods (please ignore spaces, those represent mods that don't pertain to these issues):

_001_ Morrowind.esm

_003_ Bloodmoon.esm --- required per the Romance mod only. L&L only requires MW.

_005_ Better Heads.esm

_010_ Better Heads Bloodmoon addon.esm --- see above
_011_ Better Bodies.esp --- Note: L&L, the integrationpatch, and Jac & Axel's add-on do NOT support beast or custom races; however, the Romance mod does with a tutorial for custom races in the readme.
_012_ allhair.esp

_063_ Romance_v37EV.esp

_065_ Romance_Follow_v10EV.esp
_066_ Mr Cellophane's Lovers and Legends V0.esp
_067_ L&L Addon.esp

_069_ L&L_TRM_patch.esp

Hope this helps and I also hope the details don't get bleeped by Bethesda. Please let me know if you need any more info . . . or if you would have preferred a little less.

Actually, LAL does support non-beast custom races. It doesn't support beast races because of the animations involved won't work with the beast skeleton. You'll need to have any custom races loaded before you setup LAL for them to work.

Oh, that's good to know, though I don't think I'll try it. It was a trick getting it all to work in the first place. Remind me to thank LadyGodiva for mentioning mlox . . . it made all the difference in the world.

A new rule-base update is available: mlox-data_2009-05-11.7z
from: http://code.google.com/p/mlox/downloads/list

In this release:

Load order for Romance Mod + Lovers and Legends (Reported by Jac)
Load order for NighttimeDoorLocks-LD v1.1a + HomesToLet (Reported by JoelR)
Load order for TLM (Reported by Black Crow King)

From Dragon32:
(Updated)
Alchemy Storage Helper v2.0 [scruggs]
Avenge Your Death! [Fliggerty]
Distant Land Interior Fix [Yacoby]
Havish [JOG]
Morrowind Enhanced [???]
Oblivion-Style Spellcasting [Fliggerty]
(New)
Companion Health Bars [Yacoby]
Encumbrance Bar [Yacoby]
Health Indicators [Fliggerty]
Improved Hand to Hand [Fliggerty]
Improved Teleportation [cdcooley]
Magicka Based Skill Progression [HotFusion4]
Morrowind Graphics Extender [Various] - simple version info
Morrowind Inhabitants [scruggs]
Morrowind Script Extender [Various] - simple version info
Pursuit Enhanced [Yacoby]
Rage Indicator [Yacoby]
Spellcasting Mod [Horatio]

Thanks to everyone for contributing!

And here's a chance for some more contributions!

I've added into mlox_base.txt some basic MWSE and MGE version information for some plugins:

MWSE
[Note]
These mods require Morrowind Script Extender (MWSE) v0.9.1 or later, or MGE v3.0.3 or later.
ImprovedTeleportation2.0.esp

[Note]
These mods require Morrowind Script Extender (MWSE) v0.9.2 or later, or MGE v3.0.3 or later.
ASH2.0.esp
Better Telekinesis.esp
Controlled Jumps.esp
Decorator+.esp
Decorator+ (Balanced).esp
Enhanced Detection.esp
Fliggerty's Fleeing Fetchers.esp
Health Indicators MWSE.esp
Improved Bartering.esp
Improved Hand to Hand.esp
Inventory Helpers.esp
Morrowind Battle Cry.esp
Morrowind Narcissism.esp
MWInhabitants Freeform (Vol 1).esp
MWInhabitants - Pickpockets!.esp
npce_mwse_patch.esp
Oblivion-Style Spellcasting.esp
Protective Guards.esp
Raven Wings.esp

[Note]
These mods require Morrowind Script Extender (MWSE) v0.9.2a or later, or MGE v3.1 or later.
Arrow De-nocker.esp
Blasphemous Revenants.esp
Enhanced Summoning.esp
Keyring.esp
LA_MWSE Addon.esp
Merchant Investments.esp
More Quick-Keys.esp
Visceral Discernment.esp

;Dragon32: I couldn't find when MGE introduced v0.9.3 of MWSE. MGE v3.5.6 adds MWSE v0.9.4 script functions
[Note]
These mods require Morrowind Script Extender (MWSE) v0.9.3 or later, or MGE v3.5.6 or later.
Avenge Your Death!.esp

What I'd like to do is to add these in, but I don't know what the correct version of MWSE is:
Loot Sack.esp
Alchemist's Arsenal v1.0.esp
Detect Owner.esp
Gravedigger.esp
Melee Missiles v1.2.esp
Pursuit Enhanced.esp

MGE
[Note]
These mods require Morrowind Graphics Extender (MGE) v3.0.3 or later, with MWSE enabled.
Close Inspection.esp
Companion Health Bars.esp
DN_1st_Person_Helm1.1.esp
Encumbrance Bar.esp
Fatigued Bar.esp
LOCH_Brass_Telescope_(1.1).esp
Ownership Indicator.esp
Rage Indicator.esp
Short Ranged Teleport.esp
Time Display.esp
Timeslip's trinkets.esp
TS_BetterBooze.esp
zooming bows (v2).esp

[Note]
These mods require Morrowind Graphics Extender (MGE) v3.3.2 or later, with MWSE enabled.
The Gambler.esp

What I'd like to do is to add these in, but I don't know what the correct version of MGE is:
Better Boots of Blinding Speed.esp
ToggleSneak.esp
Zoom 1.0 MSE + MGE.esp and Zoom 1.0.esp
Moonlight.esp
WaterBlur.esp and WaterBlurDNW.esp

There're also a bunch of mods on http://www.mwmythicmods.com/MWE.htm that I don't have. So, the opportunity's there: let me know the required MWSE and MGE versions and I'll write the mlox rules.

:wave:

@Dragon32:

Oblivion-Style Spellcasting.esp Requires MWSE 0.9.2a (or higher of course) AND MWE. This is a common mistake that I addressed in a thread the other day. I think the confusion comes from the description on Telesphoros List of Mods site...


Thanks!


-joelR

You mean the one where you asked why you were getting an expression error, and I pointed out my own problems with Oblivion Spellcasting--and it turned out to be the same thing, for you? Yeah, it really helps to address these errors in those big, seldom reviewed lists, like the Mythic Mods group. I tried to get something changed about an inaccurate quest listing a few years ago in Telesphoros', but never could get his attention.

And I think the jury's still out on whether Horatio's NPC Enhanced is better with its patch, or without. Two different published sources are not in agreement.

90% sure this should work with 0.9.2 (Although IMHO noone should be running 0.9.2 anymore). I seem to remember I made it long before the new interface that came with the dll injection method.

IMHO I would put it at 0.9.3 as I haven't tested it with 0.9.2


This should work with MGE 3.0.3. It uses the MWSE pipe and uses keypress functions, which have been in MGE for quite a while. Although it hasn't been tested with anything other than 3.3.2.


Is it also worth flagging this as requiring MWE_base or whatever the file is called?

(This may already be done *shrugs*)


I thought MWE was faster than MWSE^{[citation needed]}. All the patch did was port it to MWSE. Hence, imho there should be no preference expressed by Mlox.

Should be. I got caught by Oblivion Style Spellcasting in 2/09. It seems to happen every few months, when someone adds it to their list without having MWE and MWSE active, because Mythic Mods listed it as not requiring both. It's still wrong, and lists "Require MWSE 0.9.4a or MWSE 0.9.2a and MWE."



Back in http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=950630&st=0, mlox at the time had this comment to offer: "The NPC Enhanced MWSE add-on was made primarily for those who do not run both MWE and MWSE. There is only one script in the original mod that uses MWE functions, and the MWSE version is the same way. That script is the one that cycles through NPCs searching for those in combat with the player. MWE handles the function a little bit better. It's a bit faster and requires less CPU power. So if you are using MWE anyway, you do not need the MWSE version." But I noted in http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=951827&hl=mlox about stutters while still using MWE and MWSE, "NPC Enhanced was the problem. When I ran it without the MWSE/MWE patch, the game stuttered. When I ran it with the patch, the game stuttered, until I forwarded the patch postdate from one month to over a year. That solved it."

So I can't speak for anybody else's experience, but with both MWSE and MWE running, I needed the MWSE patch to make the game stop stuttering and slow down. And though the readme didn't mention it, I needed to forward the date-time stamp from one month's difference post Horatio's mod to one year. Go figure.

Oblivion Style Spellcasting: mlox does check for MWE_base.esp, I only posted the simple versioning rules (this mods needs version x of y), those plugins with more complex rules (like Oblivion Style Spellcasting) have their own separate set of rules.
From the readme (v1.5):

Thanks for the info, I'll add it all in come next update. I hoped you see this :ninja:
That's why we got rid of the rule, I'm hoping that Fliggerty's Better Battles will obsolete NPC Enhanced and the patch and also not behave in such an odd way.
I didn't understand that when you posted originally: that's just bonkers behaviour :blink:

Thanks all :thumbsup:

[Edit: typo]
[Edit2: spotted the 0.9.2a in JoelR's post]

You know, I posted this in another thread, relating to another player's modlist, but it's relevant here in terms of making an mlox rule for users of MTT III:




MTT IV gets rid of that problem, if you use John Moonsugar's patch. You can get it here. From his readme:

The original MTT IV Beta had a problem with how it placed trinkets
in bandit loot, it ended up entirely replacing all bandit loot,
and you wouldn't find any more Grand Soul Gems, for example. A fix
was done by Habile to solve this problem, however, there still
remained a problem with the usage of the function AddToLevItem,
which could cause copies of the leveled list to be saved in your
savegame, thus preventing you from effectively adding any new mods
that modified leveled lists for bandit loot. The gorey details are
here:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Leveled_Lists

One problem still remained after all that. The version of "MTT Master
IV.esp" on that page uses a reference to an object that only exits in
another mod altogether (oluhan). This introduction of a dependency was
apparently an oversight.

So what I've done in this .esp file is to correct that erroneous
dependency. So all credit for the real fix goes to those on the
aforementioned webpage.

So MTT IV is the one to get. It both fixes the leveled list issue, and add yet more neat magical trinkets to the game. I would suggest phrasing it, perhaps, like this:

MTT III and IV both use the deprecated AddToLev* function to modify gamesas leveled lists. For an explanation of why the functions AddToLev*/RemoveFromLev* are deprecated, please see :
| !! http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Leveled_Lists. John Moonsugar's MTT IV patched version solves this issue: http://sites.google.com/site/johnmoonsugar/Home/wine/installing-mods-under-wine

That is, John, if you don't think this comes under the heading of self-promotion. Frankly, I don't see it, since your version of MTT IV solves outstanding issues.

mlox also recommends placing MCAFix, intended to remove several lines from Morrowind Comes Alive that create NPCs who attack the PC (including fresh out of the character creator), after the Mashed List. No explanation is given why, and I admit to being a bit curious, myself.

I would be interested in an explanation as well. For me though it only started working after I used mlox. Cant remember where it was in the load order prior but I know that It wasnt working, or rather, I realized it wasnt working after it was reset by mlox since I stopped getting attacked in cities

I put MCAfix after Mashed Lists because Aeven http://thttp://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=938026&view=findpost&p=14024881 too And I also took a look to make http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=938026&st=200&p=14026278&#entry14026278. mlox doesn't really explain load ordering, however, you will sometimes find these justifications in the rule-base comments, since it's handy to have some documentation.

P.S. I'll work up another small rule-base update soon. I have to fix a small load ordering error I put into the last update.

Well, whatever the reason, its working for me now. Glad to have mlox around.

Small update of rule-base: mlox-data_2009-05-14.7z
Available from: http://code.google.com/p/mlox/downloads/list

This just fixes a mistake I made with the load order of NightTimeDoorLocks and HomesToLet!

Edit:

@fable2: I hadn't really considered promoting MTT IV over MTT III before, since I'd read one or two comments from people preferring MTT III for some reason, even with it's known problems.

I've been a little slack lately, I'll try to catch up in the next few days. User vio sent me a sizable contribution that I still need to work on.

thanks for your efforts John.Moonsugar!

I guess it's that I don't see this as a matter of promotion, but of offering the option of another version of the program without the need for a bugfix. But that's up to you.



The link you provide to Aeven's comments is dead, but yours are okay. Reordering explanations, while annoying to provide, would be useful to have, especially in as blatant a guess of going against accepted logic as this. But I know how tedious that could be. I'm getting a recommendation currently from mlox to reorder about ten mods, but the order it places them in is exactly the order they currently are. Which is strange.

When mods are highlighted on the right hand side, it simply means that they have been moved up from their previous position, you can check this by looking at their number. It's possible that in order to move one plugin up, mlox knows that due to other dependencies, it will have to actually move up a block of plugins. So that is what you are probably seeing. It's all perfectly normal. If you really want to see all the information that mlox is crunching to make this decision, you can look at the debug information for the topological sort that it does.

I did a side by side comparison before putting up my comments. The lists are identical--mine, and the mlox preferred sorting order one--only some files on the mlox side are in yellow. Numbers are identical, too. For example, this is from my list:

165 Town Sounds
166 BirthsignsAMFun
167 MagickaRegen v20
168 Clean NPC Functionality
169 Clean Orrutus Cavern 2.0

And from mlox, all highlighted in yellow:

165 Town Sounds
166 BirthsignsAMFun
167 MagickaRegen v20
168 Clean NPC Functionality
169 Clean Orrutus Cavern 2.0

It goes on for another 20 or so mods, without changes between the two. So it appears mlox is suggesting a different sorting order that is actually the same. Guess I'm being very obtuse, even more than usual, but what am I missing, here?