Ok today i started my game after a fresh install, and quickly i noticed that MADD leveler
was not working completely. The changes that are made to the attributes of certain skills
where changed, so Madd leveler Madd Skills.esp was apparently working as it should.
But as far as i could tell the rest i use where not. I have the following installed(And also
in that order.):



Now at first i hat Immersive Chargen.esp loaded immediately after the Madd leveler mods
and in that order Madd leveler was not working as it normally should. So to check whether
it was indeed Immersive Chargen that caused the problem i restarted with Immersive Chargen
loaded immediately before the Madd Leveler mods. And look and behold Madd Leveler
seems to be working again as it should.

I am not certain whether this was just a glitch, but if it was not it might be handy to change this
in mlox_base.txt so that people know they should load Immersive Chargen v1.24 before Madd Leveler.

Just incase it is needed for testing this problem i hat, this is my load order list:

This has nothing to do with your problem, but are these all compatible?

040 Piratelords Relighted Combo.esp
041 TLM Lighting Combo.esp
042 Lights_300_V4.esp

sieboldii

Yes they are, as long as you place them in that order(To get the best of all three)
and use merged objects. I have used this method ever since i re-registered in 2007.

Mind you though, i used TLM Modular to make a combo...i do not like the sneak penalties.

Hmm, looking at Immersive Chargen versus your Madd .esps in TESPCD, the only thing in common is the script on the chargen Captain (Sellus Gravius): "CharGenDialogueMessage". It looks like Madd Leveler modifies that script to start itself up on the player, so Madd will likely conflict badly with any other mod that modifies that script.

Note that one of the reasons that Immersive Chargen changes the script is to remove the Tutorial messagebox about activating the Captain to talk to him. So by loading Immersive Chargen before Madd, it will re-introduce that tutorial message. Still, that's better than breaking Madd. Thanks for the heads up. I'll change mlox's rule-base to sort them so that IC comes first.

Edit: A quick search in my archives indicates that the following mods will conflict with Madd on theCharGenDialogueMessage script in the same way:
./morrowland.rar.dir/From Hell To Heaven part 2.esp
./PrivateersHold.zip.dir/PrivateersHold.esp
./RoyalChargen.zip.dir/Clean Royal Chargen.esp
./ShadeChargen.zip.dir/ComprehensiveChargen.esp
./No CharGen MessageBoxes.zip.dir/No CharGen MessageBoxes.esp
./PrivateersHold.7z.dir/PrivateersHold/PrivateersHold.esp
./quickchar1.2.zip.dir/Quick Char.esp
./character_maker_v1.1.zip.dir/Character Maker (qs).esp

I'll put in ordering rules for them too.

In case I'm wrong about how this works, I hope someone corrects me, but it seems to me that it is not advisable to initialize your mod by taking over one of the standard scripts.

This is pretty much going to be a issue with MADD Leveler and any mod that alters the chargen process. I had the same problem, but got around it by popping the console open after the chargen sequence and just typing in:

StartScript Madd_Leveler

That got me the "MADD Leveler enabled!" message box, and no problems since. I prefer that solution to messing with load order and breaking part of Immersive Chargen, but that's just me. :shrug:

My pleasure, and as far as i could tell the only thing that was changed in Immersive Chargen was
indeed the tutorial message boxes. All other dialoque and all events happened as they should.

I am not sure if this has already been covered in a previous update , but it appears that the Writ Bug Fix by Mashin was made obsolete by the MPP 1.9.4 and the UMP

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=975138&st=0&gopid=14090158&#entry14090158

file called: Writ Bug Fix.esp

since I didn't notice it back when I was checking the mlox list of mods that the MPP makes obsolete.

@GooglyBoogly, thanks, I've added "Writ Bug Fix" to this latest update:

New Version: mlox-data_2009-04-05.7z
http://code.google.com/p/mlox/downloads/list

A small update that includes a couple more notes for plugins obsoleted by the MPP (77 known obsoleted plugins now!)

Hey john, I've got something of a request/question for you. :hehe:

We were discussing the safety and quality of the mods I have been acquiring for Morrowind Modding History. I've been running virus scans on everything (you can never be too safe there.) But we were also talking about checking them all for GMSTs and other such problems. valre suggested that I see if it would be possible to have this (actually it would need tes3lint, right?) run server side, and maybe even scan through archives.

So could it be done? More importantly, could it easily be done? I think that such a thing could really help the integrity of many of the older mods that we are striving to make available again.

Thanks a ton for all of this...I can never say it enough! :goodjob:

Yes, it can be pretty easily done with tes3lint. It sounds like a good idea to me. The specifics of how it could be done would be a little bit different if the server is Windows or Unix based, but the essentials are the same.

I actually do this on a fairly large scale for my own little library of mods that I've downloaded for investigating for the purposes of building the mlox rule-base.

For each mod, I use a command line version of 7zip to extract just the "interesting" files (just .esm/.esp and documentation files) to a subdirectory that is named after the mod (e.g.: "mymod v1.zip" -> mymod v2.zip.dir"). Then I find all the plugin files in all those subdirectories, and run tes3lint on them, redirecting the output to a report. Then I look in the resulting reports for things like the EVLGMST flag, or whatever. Which flags you want to have reported may be a matter of taste, but some of the more important ones would probably be: EVLGMST, FOGBUG, MOD-IID, JUNKCEL. tes3lint is a little slow when you ask it to report on all flags, but you could let it grind away doing that, and you'd only have to do it once per mod.

I could help automate this via shell scripts if the server is Unix based. I'm not very useful with automating tasks on Windows though

We are in luck then, it is a Unix server. So tell me what I need to do, and I will happily do it. :goodjob:

Well, what I would do is write some little shell scripts to automate the process I outlined above.
Just sort of musing ....
To get started, I would make sure that perl and 7z are installed on your server, they probably are already.
Then I'd install tes3lint somewhere.
Then I'd look at your process for adding and storing new mods (do they all go in one big directory?)
I'd decide if I wanted to run tes3lint manually, or from a cron job (you could schedule it for overnight).
Then write a shell script that finds newly added mods, uses 7z to unpack just the .esp/.esm files, run tes3lint on them, and save the output report somewhere. Maybe put a summary report somewhere, or mail it to one or more email addresses.
If disk space is tight, the results could be compressed.
You might also want to browse the reports from a web browser, so that could affect where you want the results to be generated.
I'd be happy to help you out. I could write the scripts you need based on your description of how you have things set up.
Feel free to PM or email me.

Just a note on this, 7zip (AFAIK) doesn't support ACE archives and as we're dealing with older mods this could be an issue. Before 7zip came along ACE was often a better compression choice than RAR or ZIP, dependent on the contents of the archive.

Another thought is that I have a few archives within archives (a RAR within a ZIP for e.g.), again this tended to happen with some of the older mods when broadband was less prevalent and every byte reduced from a download was precious.

I guess just including some error trapping in the scripts would catch this but just thought I'd mention...

Very useful utility....... except, I've just used the "Update Load Order" tab for the first time (previously I'd made changes it suggested myself, using ReOrder Mods++) and it seems to have messed up ReOrder Mods++, which is now showing a bizarrely random load order which bears no relation to reality... so there seems to be some sort of compatibility issue there? <_<

@Dragon32: yes, Unix 7zip doesn't support .ace. There is a free command line program called "unace" that runs on most Linuxes and other Unixes as well. So I wrote the shell script to use either 7z or unace as appropriate. There are still problems with unace and some .ace archives, as .ace supported multiple archive types, but we can deal with that as we come to it. There's also the possibility of using Windows command line version of unace via wine, but I was hoping to see how far the plain old Unix version would get us first.


I have to admit I have never used ReOrder Mods++, so I have no idea how it works. But mlox reorders your load order by changing the dates on your plugins, as any load order tool would have to do to change the load order. I can't imagine how that would be incompatible with how ReOrder Mods++ works, but if it is, probably the best course of action is to choose one method of changing your load order that you prefer and stick to it.

Since they both do the same thing, that makes sense. Why would you need to use both?

... because I like having the flexibility to reorder mods as & when (if 2 mods alter landscape in the same cell for example, this can sometimes cause tears or floaty objects, which manually reordering usually solves).

Anyway, it's no big deal........... I'll use ReOrder ++ (as opposed to "Update Load Order") to do any actual reordering, but carry on using Mlox for advice & guidance about exactly where/ when to do this, as well as a zillion other useful things. (Such as the 3 Ald Vendras scripts I knew nothing about til today, but which I've now fixed....... surreal as it might be, I don't really want Dagoth Ur speaking French. B) )

The mlox way to fix this is to write an "[Order]" rule for the 2 plugins in question and put it in your personal "mlox_user.txt" file. Once the rule is written you never have to worry about reordering those 2 plugins again. (Or, of course, you could ask me to add such a rule to the common rule-base so that everyone can benefit from the knowledge).


I did just take a quick look at ReOrder++, and I couldn't recognize what it was showing me. The displayed order was not what mlox (or Wrye Mash) thought was the load order. It does not seem to work in the same way as mlox or Mash.

If you want to double-check your load order to see what it really should be, promethean posted a little recipe a while ago that goes like this:



(Edit: actually I include a small batch file "lo.bat" that basically does this, if you want to put it in your Data Files folder and run it there. It will show all your plugins in their load order, not just active, but it's a quick way to check to see what is your correct order at the moment).

Okay thanks. Quite often the landscape clashes involve mods I've altered myself though (Vampire Realism + Twin Lamps for example: which unless VR loads last, causes the crypt outside Vivec to float) so I'd be cautious about suggesting these as common rule-base additions.


Actually I had the feeling ReOrder ++ did things differently to Wrye Mash, but wasn't really sure. Anyway that at least explains the results I got earlier (i.e. the totally random load order RO ++ ended up with). Anyway, thanks for checking that!


Thanks, that looks useful. Anyway I've reordered ReOrder Mods ++ which now agrees with Wrye Mash, Mlox & the MW launcher/ Data Files again.

Actually..... I'm assuming the MW Launcher/ Data Files list (the one you use to check/ uncheck plugins) is absolutely definitive anyway, isn't it? That is, the order it gives there will be the actual load order? :huh:

Yes, I believe that is correct.

The load order is based on the "Modification Date" of the plugins, from oldest loading first to newest, with the exception that any .esm (master) loads before any .esp (plugin), and any .ess (savegame) loads after any .esp. So that's how they are listed in the Launcher, and in mlox and in Wrye Mash, when you sort by the "Modified" column heading in Mash's "Mods" tab.

john.moonsugar, is this the appropriate place to suggest new rules? I noticed that MLOX believes that Necessities of Morrowind (NOM 2.13.esp) should place after Wolverine Well House (Clean_WH_Well House.esp), but - unless NOM has removed its script from the Wolverine Hall well in the last few months since the last time I tested this - the Well House is entered by clicking on said well, thereby conflicting with NOM. If NOM is loaded last, as MLOX is telling me to do, the house cannot be entered (except by mark/recall, etc). Loading Well House after NOM ensures that the house is accessible (though that well cannot be used by NOM).

Yes, it's both appropriate and appreciated! Thanks.

So, here's a new rule-base release: mlox-data_2009-04-08.7z
http://code.google.com/p/mlox/downloads/list

It adds an ordering rule so that Korana's Wolverine Well house will load after NOM.

Dang, that was fast! Thanks for a great tool - with the sheer volume of mods around, this is tremendously useful, especially after extended breaks when I can't remember all the intricacies of which mod in which order.

Darn, Abot snuck in an update, too. Thanks, John.

sieboldii

| Under certain conditions, NPCs spawned by MCA will vanish. This is undesirable when you have used Vampire Embrace to turn them into your children or thrall. You might consider using the "Vampire Embrace MCA Patch" which keeps MCA-spawned NPCs in the game if they have been touched by "Vampire Embrace". However, "Vampire Embrace MCA Patch" is NOT compatible with the version of MCA 5.2 that is compatible with "The Undead 3.0", unless it is edited to remove some scripts.

About this...which scripts are we supposed to remove exactly? I've been searching for quite a while and haven't been able to figure that out.