Thanks for that.
I think the core of the matter is when he says: "Like how quickly the world owes him something he knew about only 10 seconds ago".

I remember when I saw the first game of Pong. On a machine in an arcade hall. And you had to pay a guilder (comparable to $3 today) to play it for a few minutes. I read scifi books as a kid, so there was a lot of new stuff I could envision for the future. But never ever had I expected to play a game like Skyrim in my life. And certainly not for the absurdly low cost of the game (and a computer) these days. And to put it more into perspective. My dad, who is alive and well, and uses his computer and other high-tech stuff every day, was born in WWII. When he was a kid, all he had was a stuffed little horsey to play with. His only toy until he was 6 or so.

And here are grown-ups complaining that they think 40 fps is not enough, and it is their godgiven right to have 60 fps constantly.

And then most of them wouldn't be able to say the tables of multiplication for 13. But they expect others to build the most refined pieces of technology, and sell it to them for a few bucks. And then they think those few bucks entitle them to the world. It's sad.

"I used to be a WoW player like you, then I took an arrow in the knee."

Awww, c'mon guys! 7 pages in, it had to happen sooner or later....

Aaaanyway, OT: I really did play WoW for a time before finally getting fed up of doing the same handful of fetch quests over and over and I get what the OP is driving at. The thing is though, that as with all genres these days Bethesda can't just cater to the "old guard" TES players. They are in this industry to make money and the way to make the most money is to cater to the largest possible range of players. This means the casual player who might not want or be able to sink hundreds of hours into one game as well as the hardcoe RPG guys who come up with an entire life history for their character and Role Play the [censored] out of it.

As far as I can tell, having two characters on the go, the game is only as "broken" as you want it to be. My first character is a one-man-army of giant sword and heavy armour goodness. I did grind my blacksmithing some to get into Daedric armour by the end of the main quest line (about 60 hours, level 42-ish?) because I wanted the extra protection to make up for the lack of a shield. I still have absolutely tons of content to see though so I'm not really complaining.

My second character, a stealthy thief type, is about level 23 after about 40 hours and not very much of the main quest line done. No skill grinding had been done and I'm generally taking it a bit easier with this one.

In short, the game is only as "broken" or "unbalanced" (or whatever else you want to call it) as YOU, the player, make it.

The OP is right

Simple solution, if you don't like the game, don't play it...

Seriously, how you you whine about how easy it is to powerlevel smithing when you go and do it yourselves? Why? Oh I want dragonbone armour and I want it now, make 15000000 iron daggers in 20 mins and you can have it. Oh look, I'm level 40 now, I am a gaming god, I'll go see if I can kill that giant outside of Whiterun, WTF he still one shotted me!!!.. OH MYYYY GOOOOD THE GAME IS SO BROKEN!!!!

Perhaps you just lack the discipline to level smithing moderatley. You see the youtoob vids of all the Daedric and Dragonbone armours and you drool over it 'coz it looks soooo coooooooooooool. Then realise that it means squat when you have the Heavy armour skills of a level 1 character and you get [censored] by a level 20 mudcrab when you step outside the city.

Seriously, try playing the game properly before you start saying it's bwoken (<--- that was NOT a typo)

I agree about the elitist aspect of mmo players. Being one myself I know it can be a pain. Was pretty hardcoe playing mmo but in single player RPGs like Skyrim there's no point in rushing, just chillax. The game is only for you.

That being said doing high damage is always nice but I don't feel like using all the well knows exploits. In the end you will be pretty overpowered - that's for sure, and loose interest when you are. That's why it's so hard in mmos to get the best gear. You have nothing more to do and you can only kill others for fun so long. SO it's up to you to delay that moment in Skyrim and enjoy the game.

In my first playthrough I didn't rush anything and just enjoyed the world and in the end this is what happened anyway. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYWmupfyNG8&feature=g-upl (spoiler alert!)

Just enjoy the game.

Honestly, Skyrim is probably the least exploitable Elder Scrolls game so far.

Once again Skyrim is a wonder.
Whiners are lost because of the kind of RvR in Skyrim they think they are playing a

I dont buy the arguments here.

Person A: "x is too strong, please weaken it"
Person B: "no, you're doing it wrong, you have to role play it and use restraint. You cant weaken it, that ruins it for me"
Person A: "how does weakening something, which you're limiting yourself from using anyway, affect you?"
Person B: "Shut up, you're doing it wrong, [censored] min/maxer"
Person A: "dude...what?"
Person B: "Go back to WOW"



That's about a typical exchange here and beyond a possibly legitimate concern of overall game direction (which is a different debate) I've not seen a single valid objection to addressing a) glaring imbalances and B) modifying the difficulty in various ways.

Of course, I don't expect anyone to change, but having glaring balance issues does hurt a games longevity and repeat purchasing likelihood. Of course, none of the 'hardcoe' care if all the 'mmo' players left tomorrow. Of course, the publishers, on the other hand.....

Judging from the lack of response to MMO whiners, I think the developer(s) are well set and satisfied in their turn out of yet another stellar SP product. IOW, let the whiners who THINK they know what RPGing is whine, and enjoy the game. I think it's pretty clear that TES VI will not take an MMO direction. The sales of Skyrim should pretty much guarantee that.

I've just at a discussion with a friend of mine about this subject and I mentioned that people are mega-level their skills then whine when they become overpowered. Want to know what he said?

'Why are they whining like Skyrim was an MMO?'

I rest the OP's case

Well, I can only speak for myself and one friend that shares my opinion on this matter.

In general. I prefer games that have some degree of balance between classes, spells vs melle, usefullness of skills, gear, etc...

I do not really enjoy discovering my character is 'feeble' or 'overpowered'. It is worse to be too strong, as weakening yourself after the fact 'feels' wrong, but seeking ways to become stronger 'feels natural' (to me).

That being said, I generally have little difficulty managing the issue. For example, in Skyrim, I can choose to only use one of Smithing, Enchanting, or Alchemy instead of all three.

I for one agree with the OP. Feels like there is a ton of complaining going around that just doesnt make sense for a single player immersion based game.

I don't like MMO's in general, especially not WOW.
There are a lot of whiners on this forum about that and this and so. IF you grind something and it gets maxed out then YOU choosed to do it.
YOU always have a choice.

On the other hand, that the game is to easy on master for those NOT exploiding everything, for them I think it would be a good idea for Bethesda to include a
even higher option then master, that does so all foe's are a few lvl's higher than the player.

As I said, I don't like MMO's. I don't want things to be more like a MMO where grinding and farming and other [censored] gets in focus.
Shure, the game is a bit broken can't argue against that. But smithing and [censored] ain't the thing that makes it broken.

I wonder if a level-cap would be a good idea? not be able to get 100 in everything even if you try. A bit restricting, yes, but would maybe be a good thing.

Bingo!

As to "Sword and Board"- The SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) has used that term since at least 1983 (when I joined). And yes, it referred to fighters who used sword and shield.

OT - I enjoy the game a lot, but I do restrict myself on Smithing and Enchanting. I'd prefer if they were as difficult to level up as Alchemy. Seriously, my enchanting leveling up because I recharged my axe with a soul gem? That is dumb. It's like getting better at electronics because I change the batteries in my Gameboy. Other than that, I am happy with the game.

Of course they are. Bethesda has been producing broken RPG mechanics in their games since Arena and people still buy the next game in the series.

Yes I've noticed the influx of MMO players.

It's most noticeable on Youtube, where 90% of people have female characters, and of course a female follower and a wife.

i quit playing games like WoW because other people were ruining my experience... never thought those problems would appear in a single player game :whistling:

Agreed..... Just like your avatar......... :cryvaultboy: MUST EAT SWEETROLL GIMME!!!

Take a RPG, throw the rule book out of the window and you get ?
An Action Adventure...welcome to Skyrim.
That imo is where most of the "whining" (you guys really should consider a different terminology, if you in fact even intend to draw worthwhile responses) comes from.
And a lot of it comes from longtime TES players.
Correct though, there is likely an increased influx of MMO players....no wonder considering the amount of marketing racket accompanying Skyrim.
But let me comfort you, many of them will have enough of the shallowness soon and return to where they came from.
And the TES veterans will make every attempt to use the CK to knock the game into the shape they want to....best of luck to them.
I myself am going to follow a often dispensed bit of advice given by many here....the ever so popular "Go play something else then".
And nope, the door didn't hit me in the butt on my way out....tyvm for the caring thought though.
gl all

o/

WoW didn't really coin any terms that aren't specific to WoW. Look to Everquest/Ultima.

Amen. People who think that updates and patches are their god given rights. Instead of adapting to the world, they're trying to make the world adapt to them. That's an MMO gamer and how he responds to games.

Mind you... you are only seeing the percentage of gamers that BOTHER to post. And those that BOTHER to post are the ones who like to whine.

No, it doesn't, and I say this as a player who only mages, usually pure casters, sometimes with bow support. Your logic is flawed just like people who claimed that Oblivion's magic was broken due to 100% resistance and 100% chameleon. No, it's fine. Why? Because THE CHOICE IS YOURS. Beth designs their games so that you learn the mechanics, then create the specific character you want within those mechanics. Therefore, if you want 90% reduction in cast cost, do so. If you don't want any reduction, do so. If you want 80% magic resistance in Oblivion, do so... or not.

Developers should NOT dictate how a player plays the game, only the overall structure of the game should be offered.

Exactly. Red Herring. Basically you have people who enjoy unbalanced glitched, cheating gameplay with no balance because they've found a way to exploit it. Somehow the 'threat' of other people noticing obvious glitches and balance issues, causes them to start blamestorming "MMOs" meanwhile it's laughable when they say junk like "The term Sword and Board came from WoW" which is absurd ignorance.

When I bought WoW 4 years ago, it had 9 million players. It went WAY UP while I played it (I stopped a long time ago, don't worry ), but now is only at 10 million. This pleases me. It pleases me deeply. For the 700+ million a month Blizzard makes off of it, it should be the best [censored] game on Earth. Expansions should also be free. They could have made some very smart moves to get SO many people to play it. But they were stupid. So people quit.

Exactly. Pointing fingers and blamestorming "MMO gamers" as an easy target for something that is not their fault.