MMO mentality ... : V - Skyrim

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:03 pm

BTW since when is posting a valid critique of an in game system "whining"? It's called PROVIDING FEEDBACK ON A FORUM INTENDED FOR MORE THAN JUST BLIND devoted fan WORSHIP

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:21 am

i am glad i dont need to excessively grind anything to reap the advantages. I dont like MMOs because i dont like tedious chores.

My character has about 50 smithing, and to me- i do alot of smithing compared to other task. If i had to smith alot more just to get to 50 ( i cant even improve enchanted gear yet) i would be annoyed and probably give it up.

I play on master, and its far from EASY to me.I am in no way "one shotting" dragins like some claim.

Interestingly, most of the random Radiant AI quests are basically just that, grinding. Look at the Thieves Guild and it's quests to rebuild the guild. They have you doing the exact same things over and over again, just at different locations. And having done them, that SO felt like grinding.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:28 pm

The problem are not the "MMO whiners". Everyone can play the game how they like. But the thing is Skyrim has a disease:
Simplification

This, 100%

Look at Oblivion or Morrowind. Now look at Skyrim. Whislt Skyrim is a much more beautiful game, it lacks so much. For example, Oblivion had over 30 diseases, Skyrim has what, 9? It's being simplified for a generation of people who (Most anyhow) couldn't figure out how to play a game because they didn't take a moment to consult the manual or user settings without a full fledged rage post about how the game is bad. Were moving into an age of "Please hold my hand and never let go" and its only gonna get worse from here folks.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:31 pm

You can blame the Internet generation IMO. Twitchy little buggers with ADD the lot of 'em! Couldnt read a quest entry to save their life!

. nah, really though it takes all types and who are you to judge

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:53 pm

Please get serious and stop trolling. Everyone who crafts in an RPG is an "elitist" with no life now? ROFL. How can mods let this trolling continue?

I don't see that as a trolling... it's just a human pychological feature, manifested either in the real world, or a fantasy world (on own daydreams, or nowadays mostly on videogames). Someone who heavily TRAINED (not just raised playing) smithing, enchanting, alchemy, etc. has that show-off spirit, either for an MMO community on other games, or for the NPCs on a singleplayer game like this one, to feel like a god and to enjoy being the most powerful being over the world.

I have no problem with that. The problem comes when these players pretend to claim that the game is "broken" because the game isn't a challenge anymore.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:54 pm

Yes, blame MMOs for players wanting to have fun in anyway they want to play the game.

Your logic is exactly why MMO players have a problem with people like you. Balance is something worth achieving. Not perfect balance, because finding things that works best for you personally is a enjoyable approach to the game for many people. However, having a horribly imbalanced game generally means that many options that were designed are left off the table when the player considers how to build their character or play the game. Having a horribly imbalanced game where you have no choices and perfect balance where your choices are irrelevant are both terrible options.

That said, I'd say enchanting -100% spell cost is one of those things under "horribly imbalanced". What is the point of the magicka system if you have an infinite amount of it? Once you reach that level, you have no reason to get more magicka, and there is no thought process in deciding what spells one wishes to cast, because the most powerful mana-inefficient spell is the best option. Given how powerful it is, when it comes to casters enchanting their gear, the obvious and only choice is getting -100% spell cost. It just completely breaks wizards.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:47 pm

You can blame the Internet generation IMO. Twitchy little buggers with ADD the lot of 'em! Couldnt read a quest entry to save their life!

. nah, really though it takes all types and who are you to judge

Hey, I take offense to that ADD comment. As someone with ADHD, though probably not exactly part of the "internet generation" you refer to, I rather miss having an actual quest log with quest descriptions.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:54 pm

Looks like bethesda have taken the mmo mentality too, they said they will take a look at exploits and balance in one of the patches.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:30 pm

Meh, only newbs and people like the TC are bringing up MMOs in the first place, so I don't really see what the problem is. Its not like they matter all that much anyway when it comes to ES.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:21 am

I don't see that as a trolling... it's just a human pychological feature, manifested either in the real world, or a fantasy world (on own daydreams, or nowadays mostly on videogames). Someone who heavily TRAINED (not just raised playing) smithing, enchanting, alchemy, etc. has that show-off spirit, either for an MMO community on other games, or for the NPCs on a singleplayer game like this one, to feel like a god and to enjoy being the most powerful being over the world.

I have no problem with that. The problem comes when these players pretend to claim that the game is "broken" because the game isn't a challenge anymore.

Calling people who raised smithing to 100 "Elitist" *is* trolling guy. You used Elitist as an insult, much like Fox News does.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:34 pm

Is it just me or has Skyrim been invaded by MMO whiners ?

The type of MMO player who tears through content in hours and days instead of weeks and months, and then complains of being bored. The player who sends private messages to others in a raid/group explaining how crappy there current gear and specialization is. The player who requires others to have 30 different 3rd party mods or he will [censored] and moan incessantly about someone without it.

I see post after post with this kind of thinking, where they min/max everything, play the game on master, and then complain about it being too easy and how it svcks.

This is a single player game, no one cares what you do in the game except yourself, no one is forcing anyone to make oneself in game Uber and Overpowered, yet there are countless people complaining about doing just this, others probably use tons of console commands and cheat then complain about it being too easy on Master. Like the guy who posted about how easy the game is once he has 30x sneak damage and 2 Blades of Woe equipped.

I dunno i guess i just hate to think that the next Elder Scrolls game might be influenced by this type of player's mentality.

Anyone else agree that Skyrim has been invaded by the WoW mentality gamer ? Or am i off the mark here and need to go re-new my Prozac prescription ?

Word.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:05 pm

Looks like bethesda have taken the mmo mentality too, they said they will take a look at exploits and balance in one of the patches.

Just because they want to do some balancing doesn't mean they have an "MMO mentality" now.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:10 am

Indeed, the forum has been disturbing me lately with how much mmo terminology is being used. :confused:

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:25 pm

Ah yes, the mythical "(other game) fans" that Bethesda is supposedly ruining the uber complex game that was the Elder Scrolls to cater to.

As far as Radiant Questing, I don't mind it. Just how many "fetch this" or "kill this guy" quests did Morrowind have padding out it's faction questlines, anyway?

@OP. It's not MMO whiners. Just plain old whiners. Have you not noticed the flood of "look at my unique opinion about how Bethesda ruined the game because they did (x)" posts? Or the people who whined about Oblivion's fast travel for five years nonstop? Ditto horse armor? All of the "I'm done with TES because of this and I'm announcing it to the world in my own thread because I'm a special snowflake" posts?

Hell, something like three quarters of the general board is nothing but complaints.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:39 pm

You're looking at it wrong: Skyrim hasn't been invaded by MMO whiners, they just have to troll the forums because they can't troll /trade.

I think the biggest issue is more that TES games aren't the leveling treadmill that people are used to with RPGs (particularly MMOs), so when they get here they are confused for a while. I like both but it is tough to get out of MMO "need to max everything or else I won't be competetive" mode. The trick is to realize that the world is yours, so you are only competing with yourself.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:23 pm

Is it just me or has Skyrim been invaded by MMO whiners ?

The type of MMO player who tears through content in hours and days instead of weeks and months, and then complains of being bored. The player who sends private messages to others in a raid/group explaining how crappy there current gear and specialization is. The player who requires others to have 30 different 3rd party mods or he will [censored] and moan incessantly about someone without it.

I see post after post with this kind of thinking, where they min/max everything, play the game on master, and then complain about it being too easy and how it svcks.

This is a single player game, no one cares what you do in the game except yourself, no one is forcing anyone to make oneself in game Uber and Overpowered, yet there are countless people complaining about doing just this, others probably use tons of console commands and cheat then complain about it being too easy on Master. Like the guy who posted about how easy the game is once he has 30x sneak damage and 2 Blades of Woe equipped.

I dunno i guess i just hate to think that the next Elder Scrolls game might be influenced by this type of player's mentality.

Anyone else agree that Skyrim has been invaded by the WoW mentality gamer ? Or am i off the mark here and need to go re-new my Prozac prescription ?

Wow you hit the nail on the head. I have been thinking the same thing. I have been playing Elder Scrolls game since Dagger. I think the people playing just don't get it. It Has always been about you the single player. No raid gear here. You get to play how ever you want. And if you don't like what you come up with its all on you not Bethesda. I get so sick of the QQ going on here. It really makes me glad that its a single player game. I really hate playing mmo's because of this.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:57 pm

You're looking at it wrong: Skyrim hasn't been invaded by MMO whiners, they just have to troll the forums because they can't troll /trade.

I think the biggest issue is more that TES games aren't the leveling treadmill that people are used to with RPGs (particularly MMOs), so when they get here they are confused for a while. I like both but it is tough to get out of MMO "need to max everything or else I won't be competetive" mode. The trick is to realize that the world is yours, so you are only competing with yourself.

The main trick is to not craft. Quest rewards are good... really good in some cases, but they're balanced within the game.

But seriously, it isn't like enchanting or smithing is that powerful with exploits. It is just that good.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:54 pm

Interestingly, most of the random Radiant AI quests are basically just that, grinding. Look at the Thieves Guild and it's quests to rebuild the guild. They have you doing the exact same things over and over again, just at different locations. And having done them, that SO felt like grinding.

No, its far from the same thing. Selecting items, hitting X is in no way the same grinding as going to a dungeon to kill a random assortment of bandits. You can call it repetitive, but its not on the same level of hitting X and pretend making a dagger over and over. I like smithing, i get a sort of thrill from it, but i dont like ` it THAT much that i'd want to spend even MORE time at it than the way it is now.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:47 pm

i love "epic loot". i'll play games like Diablo and torchlight for hours just to get that next piece of gear. I understand the addiction. i also realize that TES is not about that, so i dont miss it. I personally enjoy having a "favorite" sword that i dont switch out every other level for a better one. Its a good change of pace for what this game is. I love my skyforge steel 1h. It grows with me along with my smithing and i'm content.

The MMO mentality is always having high tier gear and tireless grinding for little gain. The MMO mentality is only "trying" a game for 50+ hrs. There is no way i play a game im dissatisfied with for 50+ hrs (in just a few weeks at that), but that seems par the course for MMO players.

also, all this whining about balance? for whom, who are you trying to PVP against? If you think your mage is underpowered...then lower the difficulty.

I think there is some truth to that statement.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:00 pm

also, all this whining about balance? for whom, who are you trying to PVP against? If you think your mage is underpowered...then lower the difficulty.

The thing is, magic in TES has always been pretty damn strong compared to melee/ranged, to the point "overpowered" could be valid. Skyrim's magic doesn't scale at the high end well - and that is a problem. Weapon damage does, but magic hits a definite ceiling. Throwing down the difficulty isn't a solution, when all three methods of play (melee, ranged, magic) should be equally viable all through the game.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:30 am

I have a fool proof way of dealing with forums whiners.

I ignore them.

(or make dumb posts, like this one, in their threads)

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:20 am

I probably played more then a hundred games in my lifetime.
There wasnt a single one among them that was even remotely as unbalanced as Skyrim.
And I mean all over the game, not between "classes" or anything.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:24 pm

to the OP: This year(Aug) I played my first MMORPG. I'm playing, when I get the time, LOTRO and I must say I was missing a lot. The mechanics of traditional rpg mix with some modern rpg mechanics are wonderful. One of the things I like about LOTRO are the restrictions on many things to avoid easy abuse. Is funny but one of the first things I asked in the LOTRO forums was the "age group" of lotro. The moderator told me that there are people from all ages ranging from a kid who was 8 to 90! but the average players are about 27.

No wonder I liked lotro. I really felt at home and the world is MASSIVE. You really need a horse in that game. Anyways, I noticed that Skyrim has taken some cues from LOTRO although they have made those implementations to better fit the "single player" scenario. Oh btw, I'm playing lotro as a single player all this time so you can have a blast playing as a loner just like in Skyrim.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:32 am

You know, I play WoW and still love Skyrim. I enjoy it for what it is. Some people will never be happy, no matter what you give them; even if the entire game was perfectly balanced and bug free. Given some time, I think Skyrim will be too.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:27 pm

"Oh noes I leveled smithing, enchanting and alchemy to 100 and perked them all now I have 6000 deeps and kill dragunz in 1 hit on master FIX THE GAME"