Mod merging advice : IV

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:49 pm

I'm making good progress in my Grand Reinstallation Quest, having installed, tweaked, and troubleshooted (troubleshot?) some 250 of my 450+ BAIN packages. But as you can imagine I'm running out of space for .esps. I've merged a couple dozen mods that I'm confident in, mainly script-only or item-adding mods, but I know I'll need more space to complete the Quest.

So I'm looking for some advice about what else I can merge. I know there are a few more candidates in my load order (ie, refscope and formid finder could probably be merged), but I'm really hoping to compress the HUGE list of Fran/MMM, BC, and UL esps and patches. I don't really know much about making (and therefore merging, patching, or troubleshooting) landscape mods; could they all just be mushed together in groups, keeping all the patches and stuff in the correct merge order in Gecko? Or is it infinitely more complicated than that?

Obviously the LO is BOSSed and bashed as much as it can be (though not with CBASH, which still seems too flakey). I have 215 active out of 283 installed mods. I've got about 60 more mods I'd like to try to squeeze in (some of which can themselves be merged I suppose), so I need to free up at least 20 mod slots.

Active Mod Files:

Spoiler

00  Oblivion.esm01  MenuSysFramework.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.34]03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 5.0]04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 5.0]05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]06  Qarls_Harvest.esm07  Harvest[Containers].esm08  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.8b1]09  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0A  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]0B  Hemingweys Capes Improved.esm  [Version 3.0b]0C  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 5.5.3]0D  Fundament.esm  [Version ision]0E  CustomSpellIcons - OBME.esm0F  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.5.1]++  UOPS Additional Changes.esp10  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp11  DLCShiveringIsles.esp12  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.5.5]++  USIPS Additional Changes.esp**  MOBS SI.esp  [Version 2.0]++  Better Cities - MOBS.esp  [Version 5.5.3]13  Better Cities .esp14  Francesco's Creatures and Items Resources.esp  [Version 5.0]15  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp16  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.35]17  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.35]++  All Natural - MMM Patch.esp  [Version 1.3]18  OBGE - Liquid Water.esp++  Diverse Voices.esp  [Version 0.1a]19  Storms & Sound.esp1A  Better Rainbows.esp1B  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.0]1C  WindowLightingSystem.esp1D  AliveWaters.esp1E  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp**  ApparatusIcons.esp1F  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp20  BAKAdventurerTorch.esp**  Cobl Bookjackets.esp21  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp  [Version 5.5.0]22  Glowing Wonders.esp23  More_Vegetables.esp24  MoreHarvestableFruits.esp25  Portable Campsite.esp26  Qarls_Harvest.esp27  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.9]28  RAEVWD Imperial City.esp  [Version 1.9]29  Ravens and Seagulls.esp++  SkeletonShaders.esp2A  MigStatsCheck.esp  [Version 1.1]**  VA_BetterGold.esp2B  Willful Resistance.esp2C  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.4.3]2D  Container Menu Support.esp2E  DarNifiedUI Config Addon.esp2F  Display Stats.esp  [Version 2.0.1]30  Enhanced Seasons.esp  [Version 1.3.2]31  FormID Finder4.esp32  Get Wet - just droplets.esp33  OBGEv3.1_StandAloneEffects(SingleModuleInstall).esp34  Quest Log Manager.esp  [Version 1.3.2]35  QZ Easy Menus.esp++  QZ Easy Menus DS patch.esp36  Vacuity.esp  [Version 0.2]37  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.1.1]38  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.9.3]39  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.9.3]3A  Enhanced Hotkeys.esp  [Version 2.3.1]**  Book Jackets DLC.esp++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp3B  BookCollisionTest.esp3C  Female Pants.esp3D  Kafei's Circlets Reforged.esp3E  ROADForestElfRangerOutfit.esp**  RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp++  Weapon Improvement Project.esp  [Version 1.9]**  Roberts Armamentium female.esp3F  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp  [Version 5.0]40  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp  [Version 5.0]41  Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Loot.esp  [Version 5.0]42  Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Locks.esp  [Version 5.0]43  Francesco's Optional House Chest Loot.esp  [Version 5.0]++  Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp  [Version 5.0]44  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests.esp  [Version 5.0]45  Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp  [Version 5.0]46  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]47  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]48  Hemingweys Capes Improved for MMM.esp  [Version 3.0b]49  Slof's Clothing merged.esp++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]4A  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]++  Harvest[Containers] - Vanilla - Ore ReSpawn.esp++  Harvest[Containers] - SI - Ore Respawn.esp4B  Mart's Monster Mod for Fran.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod DS base tweaks.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.8b1]4C  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Imperial Armor.esp  [Version 3.8b1]4D  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust DS Patch.esp4E  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b7]4F  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting DS Patch.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.8b1]50  Mart's Monster Mod - Durability & Damage.esp  [Version 3.7b7]51  Mart's Monster Mod - Fran's leveled quests.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Rats.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Reavers.esp  [Version 3.8b1]52  Mart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Uberhulks.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Skeep.esp  [Version 3.8b1]53  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.8b1]54  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp  [Version 3.8b1]55  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.8b1]56  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Friendlier Factions MMM+Fran.esp  [Version 3.8b1]57  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.8b1]58  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]59  MMM - Playable Undead Armors.esp  [Version 1.7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.8b1]5A  Creature Diversity.esp5B  SmallCreatures.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Wisp and VASE Addon.esp  [Version 3.8b1]5C  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Creatures Expansion.esp  [Version 3.8b1]++  Mart's Monster Mod - RadiantAITweaks.esp5D  Mart's Monster Mod - Mummies.esp5E  Cobl Tweaks - MMM.esp  [Version 1.73]++  Cobl Tweaks - MMM DS Patch.esp++  Cobl Patch - MMM Gems and Gem Dust.esp5F  Qarls_Harvest addon_MMM.esp60  Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp  [Version 1.03]61  MercerIngredientsCore.esp62  MercerIngredientsMMM.esp++  MercerIngredientsCore & MMM DS Patch - heavy.esp63  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]64  OblivionFarmer'sMarket3NoHungry.esp65  MTCExpandedVillages.esp66  Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp67  Trail  South East.esp68  Trail  WEST.esp69  Trail  EAST.esp6A  Trail  Central.esp6B  Trails of Cyrodiil North Short Cut.esp6C  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.32.COBL]6D  Rumare-AFK_Weye Patch.esp  [Version 2.2]6E  House of Healing at Weye.esp6F  WeyeOverhaulModsPatch.esp70  Roads of Cyrodiil.esp  [Version 1.0]++  ROC+Hemingweys Capes Addon.esp71  MTCEV-RoC Patch.esp72  Trails of Cyrodiil Bleakersway.esp73  Faregyl.esp  [Version 2.0.11]74  MTCVillages-FaregylPatch.esp75  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.13]76  Gottshaw Village.esp  [Version 1.0.1]77  Molapi.esp  [Version 1.0.1]78  Reaper's Bleaker's Way Village Revamp.esp79  ROC-TOCBleaker-RevampPatch.esp7A  Reedstand.esp  [Version 1.0.4]7B  Urasek.esp  [Version 1.0.4]7C  Vergayun.esp  [Version 2.0.2]7D  Villages1.1.esp  [Version 1.1c]7E  ROC+DC Villages Addon.esp  [Version 1.0]7F  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]80  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]81  xulTheHeath.esp82  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp83  xulEntiusGorge.esp  [Version 1.2.1]84  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]85  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.2]86  Trails of Cyrodiil - Colovian Highlands UL.esp87  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.3]88  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.5]89  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.5]8A  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.3]8B  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.4]8C  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]8D  ROC+Ancient Redwoods.esp  [Version 1.0]8E  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]8F  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.4]90  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]91  AFK_Weye Arrius_Creek Patch.esp92  xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp  [Version 1.3.3]93  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.3]94  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.esp95  xulPantherRiver.esp96  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]97  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1.1]98  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.8]99  RegionReviveLakeRumare-ImperialIsle patch.esp  [Version 1.3.4]9A  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.1]9B  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]9C  Villages-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp9D  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.3]9E  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.2]9F  ROC+UL Skingrad Outskirts Patch.espA0  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0.5]A1  Feldscar+Snowdale Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.2]A2  MTCExpandedVillages-UniqueLandscapes patch.esp  [Version 1.0]A3  xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp  [Version 1.1.3]A4  xulSilverfishRiverValley.esp  [Version 1.0.4]A5  xulJerallGlacier.esp  [Version 1.0.2]A6  xulTheEasternPeaks.esp  [Version 1.1.5]A7  ROC+UL-II Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]A8  TrailsOfCyrodiil-UL merged patch.esp  [Version 1.1]A9  Sutch Village.esp  [Version 1.0.4]AA  LostCoast + SutchVillage Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]AB  ROC+RR Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]AC  Better Cities - House Price Patch.esp  [Version 5.5.0]AD  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]AE  Pitcher Plant and Lily Ingredients.espAF  AutoBookPlacer.esp  [Version 3.02]B0  Auto Update Leveled Items And Spells.esp  [Version 1.2.5]++  Auto Update Leveled Items And Spells DS patch.espB1  HUD Status Bars.esp  [Version 5.3.2]B2  DS Cyrodiilic Cooking.espB3  DS Mods merged.espB4  Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp  [Version 3.2.1]B5  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]B6  kuerteeGoldIsAnInventoryItem.esp++  Enhanced Vegetation [100%].espB7  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.2.0]B8  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 5.4.3]B9  Alternative Beginnings.esp  [Version 1.4.2]BA  Kyoma's Spell Renamer.esp  [Version 3.0.0]BB  RefScope.esp  [Version 2.1.2]BC  RshAlchemy.espBD  RshAlchemyRecipes.espBE  Bundlement.esp  [Version ision]BF  nGCD.esp**  Cava Obscura - Cyrodiil.esp**  Cava Obscura - SI.esp**  Cava Obscura - Filter Patch For Mods.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 88]++  Item interchange - Placement.esp  [Version 88]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk, reduced.esp  [Version 88]C0  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.espC1  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]C2  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]C3  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]C4  bgMagicAlchemy.esp  [Version 1.57]C5  bgMagicPotionNumberSoulGemValue.esp  [Version 1.68UV]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalBetterRedguards.esp**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge Better Redguards.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]C6  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.51EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]C7  Tejon Mods merged.espC8  Better Cities Full.esp  [Version 5.5.3]C9  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 5.5.3]CA  Better Cities - All Natural.esp  [Version 5.5.0]CB  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3]CC  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp  [Version 1.3]CD  TrailsOfCyrodiil-BC patch.esp  [Version 5.5.0]CE  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp  [Version 1.4]CF  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Panther River patch.esp  [Version 1.4]D0  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp  [Version 5.3.0]++  Better Cities - Storms & Sound.esp  [Version 5.5.0]++  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 5.5.0]D1  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp  [Version 5.3.0]**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp++  kuerteeEffectDrainShaderInitialGlowOnly.esp**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]D2  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp++  Life Detected.espD3  Retextures merged.espD4  MiniMap.esp**  ROC Standard Road Record.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]++  Harvest Containers Filter patch for mods.esp  [Version 1.00]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.35]++  DS Cyrodiilic Cooking - Filtered Ingredients.espD5  DS Misc Tweaks.espD6  Bashed Patch, Kalija.esp

Is there anything that stands out as mergable, preferably in large batches? Or anything that looks out of whack to anyone, particularly along the lines of the UL/BC/village mods and myriad patches? I think I've got everything right, but you never know...

Thanks in advance...

» Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:18 am

A couple small additions:

DLCShiveringIsles.esp is a dummy esp needed to load the BSA. You can just rename the Unofficial SI Patch to DLCShiveringIsles, don't even need to merge.

I've merged Enhanced Hotkeys and Dynamic Map with no problems. However, I don't know whether that would interfere with Map Marker Overhaul, which I don't use. Might even be able to merge all of them.

Also, some advice you may feel free to ignore: If you're me, you'll probably only use one house, at most. So I don't use EE's house prices or the BC addition, since that's two active ESPs (a lot when I was at 250, 253 mods) for a very minor feature. Deactivating's a helluva lot easier than merging.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:53 pm

When merging you just want to be careful that plugins don't overlap in any way. If they do..one plugin's changes are going to overwrite the same change from another plugin depending on how you set priority in TES4Gecko. Landscaping and placed objects are the two most obvious and easy to see. But this applies to other aspects like path grids, changes to a specific NPC, some scripting if two mods apply different scripts to the same items or game element. So the only safe rule of thumb is to scan each mod and understand what it does before merging it with something else. You may need to manually edit things before and after merging with the CS or TES4Edit.

Example: If two different plugins make landscape changes to game cell 4,4. Landscaping is winner take all. So only one version of those changes can be preserved. Same for path grids. Now on the other hand if one plugin makes landscaping changes to that cell and another just plops down a house for example. Both sets of changes may work together with minor adjustments before or after the merge. Hopefully this helps clear things up.

Things get tricky when you start merging compatibility patches. Especially if there are two which overlap. Again changes for a given object ...or game element are winner take all. In some cases where two patches have the same parent mod you can potentially duplicate objects by merging patches.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:04 pm

would you kindly share some of those unified .esps? I doubt it would hurt to do so, and I'm pretty sure some of us would be interested.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:45 pm

@mhahn, if overlap is really the only concern, does that mean that all those consecutive Unique Landscape esps that don't have patches relying on them are actually safe to merge? That's very surprising to me - I was under the impression that TES4Gecko just couldn't merge landscape at all without changing Oblivion.esm.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:31 pm

I'll be honest I've never tried it on the scale of a UL Mod. There may be limits to what can be done. But yes it merges all aspects of the plugins you select, including landscaping and path grids. It makes no changes to Oblivion esm. I don't even know if that is technically possible. Any changes made to vanilla Oblivion are by default saved in a separate esp or esm plugin.

For example I've been working for some time now on a merged version of my own Settlements..which contain significant amounts of landscaping and path grid changes. And it's turned out quite well so far. The best I can say in regards to merging UL Mods is test and see. I would say you just need to check border areas where the mods butt up against one another. And be sure to merge them in the correctly established load order. It should work.

Once you successfully do that...be aware that you will have to remaster ALL compatibility patches associated with the separate mods if you decide to use a patch later on.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:24 pm

It's not much help with your own merging (I'm looking forward to following that, you've got a few issues there I've been pondering), but there is an already merged http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/44766/ that could save you a few slots.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:56 am

Those are two great suggestions, thanks! While I knew the DLC esp was a dummy file for the BSA, I never thought to ditch it and rename the patch. And "duh!" :facepalm: on the house prices - I almost never use the stock houses.

Yeah, I know all about the rule of one or whatever you want to call it, and why you need a bashed patch and filtering and all that good stuff. It's just that, well... scripting easy - landscape scary! :tongue:

Err, I'd be happy to detail how I go about merging mods, but I'm not comfortable sharing other people's work - especially not if I've mashed various authors' stuff together willy nilly.

Thanks, I didn't know about that one. I wonder how it'll work with the various ToC-UL patches. Guess I'll try 'em and see. I suppose loading the merged ToC before the merged ToC-UL patch should work. In theory. Question mark? :blink:

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:15 pm

Why do you think CBash is flaky? It can merge stuff that the Python version can't. I use CBash exclusively. You have to install the Python version of Wrye Bash for it to work properly though.

In terms of merging landscape mods, I would do it with TES4Edit. I have an advanced tutorial on http://www.theassimilationlab.com/forums/topic/14190-tes4edit-case-study-recovering-a-patch/ that involved recovering a gazillion landscape edits, so you might find that helpful.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:47 am

It works fine if you use the right patches. Look http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/45616. The read-me files explain everything. I'm more than happy to fill in the blanks if something isn't clear.

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:36 pm

I was having issues with it, in particular it wouldn't load in my CSV files when importing names. http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1501046-wrye-bash-thread-100/page-7#entry23809107

What the?! How did I miss this? :blush:

Thanks!

» Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:49 pm

Thanks for the detailed walkthrough. I find it very helpful.